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dnuccio 09-18-2013 08:34 PM

i dont know what to do
 
im sure im beating a dead horse here, but i cant find anything useful by searching.

i cannot get my ZJ (95 Limited w/ 5.2L) to run at a reasonable temperature. the entire cooling system is brand new. i put in a new 3 row all metal radiator, new (not reman) water pump, new fan clutch, new thermostat (first i put in a 180* stat, then went to a 160 in hopes it would keep the engine cooler by opening sooner. 160 is in it now.), and new hoses.

during normal driving, even with the hood popped on the safety latch to let more air in, the coolant temp still climbs to 220*. if i turn on the A/C, it shoots up to almost 240.

ive installed an aftermarket temp gauge because i suspected my factory gauge was off. infrared thermometer is showing 220* on the thermostat housing.

occasionally i get a CEL and using the key trick i get code 32, EGR system malfunction. could this have something to do with it? ive tested the EGR valve per the procedure in the FSM (applied vacuum to it, engine stumbles, indicating the valve is functioning properly). tube is not plugged either.

i dont know where to start looking now. my dad suggested putting an electric fan in it, but i cant imagine a brand new clutch fan isnt moving enough air. e-fan would help at low speeds for sure, but even on the highway with lots of air moving, temp still gets up there. granted it has been over 100* here in AZ, but i still think it should not be running this hot. there was a period of a week here not too long ago where it rained alot and cooled down, and my temp gauge never touched 200.

:brickwall

jabba974 09-18-2013 10:06 PM

It could be the outside temps causing it to run hot.... Driving above 35mph there is more airflow coming through the grill then any fan could pull...so if its running hot down the highway, it could just be the 100 plus degree weather... You may check the spark plugs for indications that the motor is running rich...that could increase engine temps.... I would also stick with a 195 thermostat...you want the coolant to stay in the radiator as long as possible to get the cooling effect from the rad... Put a 16 pound radiator cap on too...that can keep the pressure in the system correct...

Idk how you feel about additives, but try either Water Wetter or 40 below...I have heard good results from these two brands...

jm8881 09-18-2013 10:07 PM

At this point I think you have to start thinking outside of the box. Are you sure the waterpump is the correct rotation, is your timing off, ever mix dex cool with green or any other incompatible coolants, do you have anything blocking your radiator, is your ac condenser clogged up with mud/leaves, stuff like that.

dnuccio 09-18-2013 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba974 (Post 16132433)
It could be the outside temps causing it to run hot.... Driving above 35mph there is more airflow coming through the grill then any fan could pull...so if its running hot down the highway, it could just be the 100 plus degree weather... You may check the spark plugs for indications that the motor is running rich...that could increase engine temps.... I would also stick with a 195 thermostat...you want the coolant to stay in the radiator as long as possible to get the cooling effect from the rad... Put a 16 pound radiator cap on too...that can keep the pressure in the system correct...

Idk how you feel about additives, but try either Water Wetter or 40 below...I have heard good results from these two brands...

i thought a lean condition causes higher engine temps?

i did put in a bottle of Water Wetter. no difference

dnuccio 09-18-2013 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jm8881 (Post 16132449)
At this point I think you have to start thinking outside of the box. Are you sure the waterpump is the correct rotation, is your timing off, ever mix dex cool with green or any other incompatible coolants, do you have anything blocking your radiator, is your ac condenser clogged up with mud/leaves, stuff like that.

how do i tell if the water pump is the correct rotation? i wasnt aware there were different ones. the water pump i used is an ACDelco #252523

only coolant i ever put in it was the green with a mix of straight water out of the hose.

condenser is clear of debris.

zjosh93 09-18-2013 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnuccio (Post 16132617)
i thought a lean condition causes higher engine temps, not a rich condition?

i did put in a bottle of Water Wetter. no difference

A malfunctioning EGR valve can cause a lean condition. Seems unlikely since it passed the vacuum test. I'm not sure how the EGR passages in the manifold and head are routed but if they are significantly clogged with carbon you might have enough flow to stumble at idle but not enough while driving.

zjosh93 09-18-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba974 (Post 16132433)
I would also stick with a 195 thermostat...you want the coolant to stay in the radiator as long as possible to get the cooling effect from the rad...

If the engine is running at 220-240 changing from a 160 to a 180 or 195 thermostat won't change anything. If the engine is more than 20 degrees above the opening temp of the thermostat then the thermostat is fully open.

It's also a myth that you can pump water through the radiator too fast. You can drive the water pump to fast and lose flow to cavitation but other than that it doesn't matter how fast the water is moving, just the temperature differential between the water and the air.

StPaul59 09-18-2013 10:45 PM

Could your shroud have leaks around it?

I was running about 210/220 with a clutch fan in 85 degree weather with a 180 Tstat in until I put the Taurus efan in. Now its always below 210. I bet that an efan would solve your issues.

jabba974 09-18-2013 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zjosh93 (Post 16132977)
It's also a myth that you can pump water through the radiator too fast. You can drive the water pump to fast and lose flow to cavitation but other than that it doesn't matter how fast the water is moving, just the temperature differential between the water and the air.

I have to disagree with you...The radiator is not just a storage tank, it is designed to radiate the heat away from the coolant...You can have the biggest radiator they make, but if you do not restrict the flow, it does not have enough time to cool down... That is why even in racecars, they run a thermostat, or atleast a restrictor... allthough you do have a point when the thermostat is open, especially at temps above 220, it wont matter what degree t-stat you have...

dnuccio 09-18-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StPaul59 (Post 16133313)
Could your shroud have leaks around it?

I was running about 210/220 with a clutch fan in 85 degree weather with a 180 Tstat in until I put the Taurus efan in. Now its always below 210. I bet that an efan would solve your issues.

i suppose that is possible.

im leaning towards an e-fan. i had a taurus fan in for a while and it did seem to help a bit. not to mention there was a noticeable increase in power with the efan, and it didnt sound like a jet engine when you stepped on it. i ended up taking the taurus fan out because the fan motor **** the bed. im thinking a brand new taurus fan (from an aftermarket manufacturer, not Ford. see my sig) might help me out.

Y0ungGunZJ 09-19-2013 12:17 AM

is this new radiator thicker then the old one? yes you said its a 3 row but if it is the same thickness, that 3rd row isn't helping any more then a 2 row would. is it the same height of the factory one aswell? or is it taller?

Uniblurb 09-19-2013 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnuccio (Post 16132681)
how do i tell if the water pump is the correct rotation? i wasnt aware there were different ones. the water pump i used is an ACDelco #252523

only coolant i ever put in it was the green with a mix of straight water out of the hose.

condenser is clear of debris.

That AC Delco water pump is the correct one for your 95 5.2. It's the 4.0 water pumps which are reverse rotation.

You should really mix your antifreeze with distilled water since hose water has too many minerals in it. This isn't your overheating problem but just causes all those new parts to build up minerals/calcium faster.

Do you have any header/downpipe/Y-pipe exhaust leaks? The reason I ask is the upstream o2 sensor will sense more air/oxygen coming in through a crack/bad gasket and then the PCM will dump more fuel in causing it to run hotter.

Are all your side covers next to the rad in place and fan shroud in good shape? Does you limited happen to have an external trans oil cooler to help cool the trans down?

coralman 09-19-2013 03:55 AM

Clogged cat?

newfieZJ 09-19-2013 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba974 (Post 16133809)
I have to disagree with you...The radiator is not just a storage tank, it is designed to radiate the heat away from the coolant...You can have the biggest radiator they make, but if you do not restrict the flow, it does not have enough time to cool down... That is why even in racecars, they run a thermostat, or atleast a restrictor... allthough you do have a point when the thermostat is open, especially at temps above 220, it wont matter what degree t-stat you have...

I agree , longer it's in the rad , cooler it gets .


IMO , stop using aftermarket low temp t-stats . You may as well be using a failsafe and have it stuck open , same result . Buy Mopar .

dnuccio 09-19-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y0ungGunZJ (Post 16134697)
is this new radiator thicker then the old one? yes you said its a 3 row but if it is the same thickness, that 3rd row isn't helping any more then a 2 row would. is it the same height of the factory one aswell? or is it taller?

it is thicker


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