How To Rebuild Your Saginaw ZJ Steering Gear - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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Unread 11-11-2011, 11:00 AM   #16
Smokey1r
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1997 ZJ 
 
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Location: Macomb, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csouers View Post
Yes yes yes! Where did you pick up your rebuild kit?
I purchased the rebuild kit at rockauto.com EDELMANN Part # 8775 Power Steering Repair Kit

Just a heads up, if your rebuilding a 1996 to 1998 steering box this kit will work perfect for you, if you need sector/pitman shaft or thrust bearings you will have to source them separately for this box. if your looking to rebuild a 1995 or older box this kit will not work totally, the 1995 and older steering boxes have a different design stub shaft bearing assembly, extra stub shaft seals, o- rings and clip, plus the sector/pitman shaft bearing does not have the protruding lip on one end even though the length, OD and ID of the bearing is identical, also the pressure seals are thicker and the dust seal is a slightly smaller diameter then the primary pressure seal. Though on the plus side the stub shaft bearing is identical! and of course the thrust bearing will have to be sourced separately also. have i confused you yet??!!

recap

96 to 98 thrust bearings; source separately.
93 to 95 thrust bearings; source separately.

96 to 98 sector/pitman shaft bearing; source separately.
93 to 95 sector/pitman shaft bearing; in its year model repair kit.

96 to 98 sector/pitman shaft seals; in its year model repair kit (not compatible with 93 to 95 kit).
93 to 95 sector/pitman shaft seals; in its year model repair kit (not compatible with 96 to 98 kit).

96 to 98 stub shaft bearing; source separately or interchangeable with 93 to 95 kit.
93 to 95 stub shaft bearing; in its year model repair kit.

96 to 98 stub shaft seal; a single seal in its year model repair kit.
93 to 95 stub shaft sealS; two seals (smaller size then the 96 to 98 kit) in its year model repair kit.

93 to 95 number of o-rings 10
96 to 98 number of o-rings 8

93 to 95 number of Teflon seals 4
96 to 98 number of Teflon seals 4

93 to 95 number of retaining clips 3
96 to 98 number of retaining clips 2

I did a lot of parts research before diving in to this project.

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Unread 11-11-2011, 05:44 PM   #17
RedZJ
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Thanks a lot for posting this
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Unread 11-15-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
coralman
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Smokey, thanks for tutorial, it was great! If you tear the box down and see you need hard parts other than seals ect. where would you source them?
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Unread 11-15-2011, 06:32 PM   #19
Smokey1r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralman View Post
Smokey, thanks for tutorial, it was great! If you tear the box down and see you need hard parts other than seals ect. where would you source them?
Ive done weeks of searching for various parts for the Saginaw 800 steering gear and its a hard beast to source out.

There's many outfits on the net that provide rebuilding services but they don't openly have a hard parts offering such as lee power steering, corvette steering and straightlinesteering, i cannot vouch for these sites as i have not personally had any experience with them.

My best guess on finding sources for hard parts is search the net and see if any of the outfits will actually sell individual parts.

The bearings are even more difficult to track down without an actual part number and its no guarantee if you'll find a source, but ive seen some people use automotive machine shops to source out their sector/pitman shaft bearing.

The best advice is if your steering gear has worn parts, get a low mileage JY box and do the rebuild on it to freshen up the seals rings and the bearings if needed.
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Unread 11-16-2011, 04:34 AM   #20
coralman
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Thanks!
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Unread 11-20-2011, 04:16 PM   #21
Smokey1r
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Update

Well its been 2 weeks now since the rebuilt steering box has been installed and in service... So far no slop at all!!!. Its a night and day difference in the steering!!!. No more thrashing about to keep the jeep in its lane, in fact its now just slight movements of the steering wheel now to correct on the highway or on city streets. Driving in severe crosswinds is a pardon the pun, a breeze now!!!.

Ive been doing a lot of highway driving, put on over 500 miles on the newly rebuilt steering gear.

It's hard to detect at times but i still have a tiny bit of drift going on though and all my diagnostics is leading to the confirmation the front wheel bearings wearing a bit loose, 166K on the originals isn't bad at all!!!!. I have a pair of Timken bearings waiting for me to install them. Also when i replace the entire rear end and replace all the rear suspension wearable components it should eliminate the drift that's left.

Of course i can see the frame flex when the steering is being turned right to left but ill wait till i have all the essentials fixed before i consider a steering brace.

I'm going to continue scrutinizing the steering gear, looking for any looseness over the weeks and months to come and ill update here if its staying tight or its loosening up.......
Stay tuned!!!
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Unread 11-21-2011, 04:41 AM   #22
coralman
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Wil do smokey. When I can I,m going to pull one from the jy. There is a limited 4wv8 that is very clean and looks like it was garage kept. I hope I can get it out before it goes to the crusher.
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Unread 11-21-2011, 01:29 PM   #23
Smokey1r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralman View Post
Wil do smokey. When I can I,m going to pull one from the jy. There is a limited 4wv8 that is very clean and looks like it was garage kept. I hope I can get it out before it goes to the crusher.
Just a heads up, im not 100% certain of this but its well worth it to keep an eye out for, i know some of the 96 limited has Speed Proportional Steering, not real certain about the 97 and 98 limited ZJ's, but if your rig does not have the Speed Proportional Steering and your donor ZJ your eyeballing does, your going to have issues!!!.

ZJ's with Speed Proportional Steering utilizes a different Spool valve in the steering gear. The basic ways to tell if the donor does is if the power steering pump has a solenoid and an electrical connection to it.
Also The Speed Proportional Steering control module is mounted to a bracket on the passenger side of the front cowl panel just left of the steering column. if you see those things or the connectors where those items may of been, then you will know!.

If you have a gear that is very clean and no leaks that has the Speed Proportional Steering?, and can get it for real cheap, just consider getting the box for hard parts or retrofitting the spool valve from a worn out gear to standard steering. The spool valve does not move but a tiny amount via the torsion bar in the stub shaft in the valve body, its almost a fixed component that rotates with the stub shaft and valve body so it virtually a non wear item and should be a direct swap.
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Unread 11-21-2011, 04:37 PM   #24
coralman
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From memory I do not think it had any wires or solenoids. Will keep your info in mind. Of source the two entire threads have a place in my favorites.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 10:20 PM   #25
Smokey1r
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Update on the replacement powersteering gear.

Over the past 2 weeks i have developed a sizable power steering fluid leak. Since everything is still fairly clean i was able to track it down easily.

While i was doing some major work on the front end of the engine and replacing the worn out adjuster sleeve on the drag link I decided it would be easy to remove the steering gear to check it over and fix the leak since i was in the neighborhood!.

It appears that the replacement nut for the sector/pitman shaft adjuster does not have the same seating surface as the original nut.



The original nut in the fore ground has a nice little ridge on it that allows it to seat on the side cover effectively sealing it.



This ridge is is quite evident on the side cover where it was embedded in to it.



I'm surprised i didn't catch this to begin with but oh well better now then not know or notice and have it all leak out causing further issues!!!!

I also rechecked the Thrust bearing preload and over center adjustments and its right where i had adjusted them the first time with NO PLAY!!!!.
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Unread 12-30-2011, 03:50 AM   #26
coralman
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Pulled on out of a 97 the other day. Its on my to do book. I left "list" along time ago.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:41 PM   #27
johnu
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Nice job Smokey!!

I have the original '88 XJ (Last AMC year) shop manual. It dosen't include information on the 4.0 and it's MPI -what a mess!!
It took alot of preparation work for your rebuild presentation. Excellent photo's.

To the point. I have an annoying leak from my stub shaft (input shaft) Is it possible to replace the associated seals at this point without totally tearing down the box? It looks like its still best to remove the box from the vehicle and have to go through a pre-load adjustment if I replace the seal. Otherwise the box works fine (Only 260,000 miles of abuse!!). It just keeps messing up the only asphalt driveway I've ever owned.
regards
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:49 PM   #28
edpmedic
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The Jeep Service Manual warns against adjusting the box unless you remove it and go through a big long procedure involving setting bearing pre-load and over center torque.The later manuals warn against adjusting the gear mesh before you adjust the end play. In big, bold letters -do not adjust gear mesh unless you adjust end play first. I'd believe the manual.There are two adjustments - the big nut on the steering shaft end adjusts the end play of the worm gear. The screw on top of the box adjusts the sector shaft gear and worm gear mesh. If you adjust the screw without adjusting the end play, you're basically pushing the worm gear sideways in its bearings to remove the end play. This could be bad.*

Now I know this thread is for a rebuild off but it is just something to think about if you are trying to adjust a box on the car.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 05:25 PM   #29
sdowney717
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I took apart an old caddy steering box once that had a major leak coming out the top from the stub shaft area.
Your picture shows the stub shaft with a pin. I assume there is an oring in there somewhere you dd not take that apart?

Turned out the large piston that pushes the pitman gear had worn a major area into the housing and I decided it was unrepairable.
It was smoothly gouged out quite deep.
Always wonder what happened to the metal that had worn off the surface.

this photo shows the side pin on the stub shaft which holds another central part. On the caddy box, oil came right out the top of the stub shaft thru this area.

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Unread 01-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #30
Smokey1r
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1997 ZJ 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnu View Post
I have the original '88 XJ (Last AMC year) shop manual. It dosen't include information on the 4.0 and it's MPI -what a mess!!
It took alot of preparation work for your rebuild presentation. Excellent photo's.

To the point. I have an annoying leak from my stub shaft (input shaft) Is it possible to replace the associated seals at this point without totally tearing down the box? It looks like its still best to remove the box from the vehicle and have to go through a pre-load adjustment if I replace the seal. Otherwise the box works fine (Only 260,000 miles of abuse!!). It just keeps messing up the only asphalt driveway I've ever owned.
regards
johnu
Its best to remove the steering gear to replace the stub shaft seals and yes you can remove just enough of the stub shaft assembly to replace the seals only, just pre-mark the position of the adjuster plug on the steering gear housing.
Once you have the seals replaced and at the point of repositioning the adjuster plug its a good practice to see if there's any play that has developed with the thrust bearings usually it will be the concave thrust plates on the worm shaft side that have flattened out is the main cause of any potential play.
if your adjuster plug tightens beyond the mark then this has happened and the best thing to do is remark the new spot where you can no longer tighten the adjuster plug (WITHOUT FORCING IT!) set the thrust bearing preload at about 5 inch pounds or about 3/8th of an inch looser from the new mark, if you don't have an inch pound torque wrench then do it by feel, tighten till you feel the thrust bearing binding a little bit then slowly back off the adjuster plug till it feels smooth again to rotate the stub shaft.
This will be close to the equivalent of 5 inch pounds of preload. (ask me how i know this!)

Far a the Over center adjustment goes if there's no play by feel at the center travel of the stub shaft then there's no real reason to even bother with it, but if you feel some play at the center of travel then by all means readjust and add a few more combined inch pounds over the thrust bearing preload.
The goal of the over center adjustment is to feel an ever so SLIGHT binding (and i can't stress SLIGHT binding enough!), between the rack piston nut and the sector/pitman shaft 45 degrees either side of center of travel then you will feel it free up and there will be some play in the sector/pitman shaft till you return to center.
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