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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:09 PM   #1
sgull
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1993 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: AK
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horn problem II

Recently with my 1993 Grand Wagoneer I had an issue where my horn would randomly sound by itself as I was turning the steering wheel one way or the other. For reference the ordeal is described in my previous thread http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/h...l#post15398973
The steering wheel would emit slight grinding noises when turned also. I ended up removing the clockspring, of which the wires were all screwed up inside. Not needing either the cruise control or the airbag, and deciding not to replace the clockspring, I left the clockspring wiring connector just unplugged and hanging, and the horn wire from the horn buttons in the steering wheel disconnected, with a plan to simply run a wire from the horn wire terminal in the steering wheel through the hole in the back of the steering wheel and connecting it to the Gray/Orange horn wire at the clockspring wire connector so that I could continue to have an operational horn when pressing the horn buttons on the steering wheel. I did a temporary connection as just described, which did indeed sound the horn when I pressed the steering wheel horn buttons. Then I disconnected my temporary connection until I could get a better terminal tab attached on the end of my wire. So, meanwhile, with no connection at all to the horn wire in the steering wheel, all of a sudden after sitting overnight the horn started honking by itself. It honked several times intermittently and then stayed on honking solid, until I could run out and disconnect the battery to stop it.
I know this confounded vehicle is full of the factory installed vehicle theft security system, which, depending upon a variety of factors etc will cause the horn to sound. Also, according to the service manual there is an airbag sensor plug connection tied in with the horn wire harness at the horns themselves. As I mentioned, I do have the airbag unplugged at the steering wheel, but haven't a clue whether that has anything to do with why the horn went off as just described. Also, I haven't a clue whether the horn went off because of some function (or malfunction) of the anti-theft system.
Apparently, even with the horn wire at the steering wheel disconnected, the horn relay is getting grounded somehow, providing battery voltage to the horns. But I don't know how.
What I'm hoping for is an easy fix, like perhaps just needing to replace the horn relay. Does it sound possible that a bad horn relay could be the cause of the horn sounding as I described, suddenly, all by itself?
Any comments/advice appreciated.
Also, is there a method to disable and permanently disarm anything and everything to do with the vehicle security system. I dont need it, dont like it, and dont want it, any of it. thanks

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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:31 PM   #2
KoreaZJ
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Security module also connected to and controls horn relay.

If it was your alarm, HI beams should be flashing also.

How To : Disable your alarm on your ZJ


Horn and airbag impact sensor wiring is separate.
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Unread 05-07-2013, 08:45 PM   #3
sgull
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Thank you KoreaZJ for that link. I'll go ahead and disable the alarm following those instructions. The horn issue I described happened during daylight, and I really did not notice the high beams flashing. I'm fairly certain they were not flashing. If the horn relay was bad, can that cause the horn to start honking by itself as I described? Other cause(s) also likely?
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Unread 05-08-2013, 12:14 AM   #4
KoreaZJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgull View Post
If the horn relay was bad, can that cause the horn to start honking by itself as I described?
Possible, horn circuit always has +12v.

Pull the horn relay and measure resistance between Pins#1 & #2 while tapping relay. Contacts should be open.

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Unread 05-08-2013, 09:49 AM   #5
sgull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreaZJ View Post
Pull the horn relay and measure resistance between Pins#1 & #2 while tapping relay. Contacts should be open.
I followed the above instructions. Found contacts to be open. So I guess the relay is okay and further troubleshooting unfortunately will be necessary. Any additional suggestions on how to proceed in that regard appreciated. Thanks.
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Unread 05-08-2013, 09:53 AM   #6
AaronButler
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Just shout your favorite sports teams name out the window as soon as it honks. That way you dont look like a goofball "GO RAVENS!!!"
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Unread 05-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #7
KoreaZJ
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Under what conditions does the horn blow by itself? Steady? Pulsing?

Normally, only two things trigger the horn/relay.

1. Horn buttons
2. Alarm module

Horn buttons and clockspring are already out, so not that.

Have you disabled the alarm?

You might replace the relay just to be sure it's not that.

Less likely, but there could also be a short to ground in the relay center below the relay.
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Unread 05-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #8
sgull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoreaZJ View Post
Under what conditions does the horn blow by itself? Steady? Pulsing?
Normally, only two things trigger the horn/relay.
1. Horn buttons
2. Alarm module
Have you disabled the alarm?
You might replace the relay just to be sure it's not that.
Less likely, but there could also be a short to ground in the relay center below the relay.
There's really only the one time so far that the horn started blowing by itself (since I removed the clockspring and have the horn buttons disconnected). The condition was: the next morning after I removed the clockspring and with the horn button wires left disconnected, the horn began blowing by itself. It was pulsing at first, several times, then started blowing solid (steady), until I disconnected the battery. As mentioned, I did not notice the headlights flashing during this horn blowing; I'm not absolutely positive they weren't, but I would have to say I'm fairly certain they weren't. I've left the battery disconnected since this occurence, until hopefully I can determine/fix the cause. I haven't tried to reproduce the issue or experiment with other conditions; it's just this one-time occurence, so far.
I haven't yet disabled the alarm, but probably will go ahead and do the wire cut method of doing so as described in the first post of the thread linked in post #2 here.
I suppose I could replace the relay just to be sure it's not that, although as I mentioned I did check the relay already just as described in post #4 here, and checking reveals those contacts are open. Regardless of that, is there still a reasonable likelihood the relay nonetheless the cause and the sure way to rule it out is to replace it?
Something I might mention is that I know overnight I did happen to have left the hood unlatched, and possibly the driver side door not shut all the way (maybe the alarm/security system decided to blow the horn because of that, I don't know. But doesn't seem very logical that it would wait until overnight to do so.
If what I've described still seems like the possibility that there could be a short to ground in the relay center below the relay, what's the method of testing (as specific as possible please) for checking for that?
Or, does what I've described seem more like just some kind of wacky delayed response of the alarm/security system and if I just disable it that should prevent the issue from happening again? I've (so far) at least never had such alarm/security system issues as it not allowing me to start the car and all that. I never bother locking any of the doors and never do anything special after disconnecting/reconnecting the battery or any of those other things the confounded security system is apparently concerned about (from what I understand anyway from reading about other people's issues -- although admittedly I can't make heads or tails of most of it. That's why I'd just as soon disable the security/alarm system to the fullest extent possible (as long as I can still start the car whenever I want and not have to worry about the blasted horn going off by itself).
Thanks again for any further comments/advice.
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