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Unread 08-02-2011, 10:01 PM   #16
ratmonkey
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That means the shifter and the rooster comb on the valve body are eliminated. Internal mechanical failure. Valve body or a servo probably.

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'97 zj 5.2, some stuff, some other suff, and some things that even work sometimes.

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Unread 08-03-2011, 05:23 AM   #17
StidgeInTN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marriedjeep
it looked like tiny copper flakes and sludge.It does go into park. i looked at the linkage but cant figuer out how to unhook it. I see there is a spring there but i dont see where the linkage is conected.
This is just a theory, and I don't like it 'cause I had the same "copper" flakes/sludge in the bottom of my pan this past weekend when I replaced pan gasket to fix a leak.

I've never worked on an auto tranny other than change fluid, but years ago I replaced a clutch on a manual. From what I remember, there were brass rivets hoding the friction material of the clutch plate to a metal backing plate. Could this be the same for the clutch plates in an auto? If this is the case, my thoughts are our clutch plates are so worn down they're about done. Please tell me I'm wrong.
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Unread 08-03-2011, 10:20 AM   #18
ratmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StidgeInTN View Post
This is just a theory, and I don't like it 'cause I had the same "copper" flakes/sludge in the bottom of my pan this past weekend when I replaced pan gasket to fix a leak.

I've never worked on an auto tranny other than change fluid, but years ago I replaced a clutch on a manual. From what I remember, there were brass rivets hoding the friction material of the clutch plate to a metal backing plate. Could this be the same for the clutch plates in an auto? If this is the case, my thoughts are our clutch plates are so worn down they're about done. Please tell me I'm wrong.
Nope, they're glued on by a water soluble adhesive.
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Unread 08-03-2011, 11:02 AM   #19
onevision
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Agreed. The shifter and linkage is just fine, this is an internal failure, but it does tell us a lot more. The reverse not working, with everything else working, can be the result of park sprag sticking, rear band worn, rear servo worn, valve body damaged, or the front for direct clutch worn. Quite a list of possible causes, but how it acts while in neutral is what I think points to the cause, which would be either the rear clutch or valve body. The bad news is neither one of these is an easy fix. With the metal shavings, my best guess would be that it's your rear clutch band or annulus gear in the overdrive.

To save a lot of possible unnecessary headache and effort, you could perform the basic air testing on the transmission with the valve body removed to check the functionality of the clutches and servos. This would at least verify whether or not the problem is in the valve body or transmission, which if it's just the valve body, then replace the whole unit and be done with it. The valve body has a ton of hydraulic paths springs and valves, which can get blocked with any debris or even just build up of residue from normal wear and tear. It's complex enough that I wouldn't recommend trying to work on it unless familiar with it.

The clutch bands are made up of two types of material, the metal outer part and something that is between a brake pad and metal (I'm not entirely sure exactly what it is). Whatever it is, it's pretty thin and tough, and made to wear down evenly and into a fine particle. It does have rivets on the outside of the band, but I don't believe that inner coating is riveted to it - like you'd see with brake pads, but I could be wrong. There are a number of retainer clips that would look like brass and a couple gear like parts. Either way, failure of any of those wouldn't be good.
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Unread 08-03-2011, 11:25 AM   #20
onevision
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I know that money is tight for you right now, and I was in the exact same position a few years back. I had the unfortunate luck of trying about every option out there. First I decided to have a professional rebuild the transmission, which they did for $2300 and gave me a 12 mo 12,000 mile warranty. It ran with less power and just wasn't shifting right, which I ended up taking it back to them 3 times in 4 months - each time leaving it with them for a week. The overdrive eventually fried, which they replaced, but I still had problems. Then I had a complete failure, with less than 12,000 miles on it, but 12 months and 2 weeks from having it done.

I wasn't about to give this highly recommended shop any more cash, so opted for the only thing I could afford (not that I could afford the rebuild in the first place), which was get a salvaged trans. Went through a good month and 4 transmissions before finally getting it running again, and that was only due to the kind mercy of the chief transmission mechanic at the Jeep dealership, that was kind enough to come by my house after work and help me put the trans back together. It is a huge amount of work to pull and install a transmission, which is why any shop will charge you $400 just to look at - and they do need to pull it to know what is wrong with it.

Through all this, I've come to learn all the options possible, and I'd probably have picked differently had I known. Don't do any rebuild. While a rebuild is as good as new when done right, it must be done right. A full rebuild kit for a transmission is less than $200, but requires a lot of work and a couple custom tools (I fabricated mine). You can get a fully rebuilt transmission from the dealer for about $1900 and it comes with a 3 year 90,000 mile warranty, which is better than any shop will offer you. There are even some transmission places that you can get new upgraded transmissions for around $2500. You can get a salvaged trans with a claimed 60,000 to 90,000 miles on it for around $600. Maybe it will work, more likely it won't, but either way count on a good 12 hrs of hard work to pull yours and install it, and that's if you don't do anything to it. If you choose to crack it open and make sure everything is good, there are a lot of steps and each must be followed, but it can be done. I have the complete step by step procedure written by Jeep if you want them.

Food for thought, and a tough spot to be in for sure. Which there were better options, but when deciding I'd also factor in downtime into the cost equation. I was down for a full month, not counting the random weeks of that lame shop doing "repairs", and had no choice but a rental car for much of that, which definitely added up.
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Unread 08-03-2011, 12:31 PM   #21
marriedjeep
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So i have decided to buy another jeep this one being a 93 same motor allwheel drive. I happened to luck out and bought this for 500 dollars all it needed was a fuel pump now the tedius task of parting out the old jeep begins. Thank you so much everyone for helping me threw this ordeal. i will post an update as soon as i know evrything is good. Again Thank you
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Unread 02-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #22
marriedjeep
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SOOOOOOO i ended up keeping my jeep and bought me a used tranny from a jeep that was rolled at our local mud hole for 200 bucks. Now 5 months, a baby, and some blood later all is good and fixd thanks again for alls help.
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