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Unread 02-05-2014, 03:29 AM   #1
ZJfamilyfun
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a fun little story

So back in December i posted about doing rolling burnouts. Harm less post. One reply read "you are an idiot and should not be aloud on the road". Fast forward to yesterday. I was approaching a stop sign with an icey intersection at about 10 mph. Tapped the brakes and started sliding. Just then another car entered the intersection when she saw me she stopped. In the blink of an eye i released brakes turned right to try to steer around the back of her car then cranked hard left and used the skinny pedal to whip my rear end around so it would not hit her rear quater. As to my passenger and her amazment my quick thinking avoided an accident. Now back to my post. I do that kind of stuff, rolling burnouts, doughnuts, drifting, ect, so i know my jeep and how it reacts in all differant situations and scenarios. To avoid what i just avoided. Mind you this situation was not my fault as the road crew never treated this intersection. And if the other car had just kept driving instead of stopping she would have been out of the intersection as i slide past. So to the person who called me an idiot, ha! Thats why i do what i do.

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Unread 02-05-2014, 03:53 AM   #2
theGiantPanda
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I do that stuff all the time. Here's a better one for you. When I was a cop I would push, twist, spin, slide, hard stop, jump, dance and play with whatever I was driving at the time.. They teach up to know your car in driving school. I pushed a patrol car around the driving course harder than most. I watched my instructor make that car dance. Not too many on my shift "practiced" this, far be it too many in my or the other local departments at all that i knew of. Late at night. In empty lots. When the main roads were empty (4 lane wide each way/median divided) I would practice. where I worked the likelyhood of getting involved in a chase someway was at least 40-50% a day. There's In car video somewhere if me 3 wheel drifting my old lowered k9 expedition around a subdivision intersection chasin a bad dude.. Shortly after I retired my k9 and gave up my 2wd Tahoe that I had chased ahhhh a few less desirable elements in... On the streets, through fields, down rxr tracks... You name it... Without an incident... The new k9 guy-with 15 years on the job (a) blows the engine and within (5) weeks smashes the truck into a..what... A freakin tree... Hmmm nice one Johnny, maybe you should have familiarized yourself with your equipment.

I believe that done properly with due care and caution, experimenting and learning the characteristics of the vehicle you drive daily is knowledge you should have. Most people don't have a clue as to what you can really do with a vehicle or how to "drive" it. How bout this... Do you know how to keep your ride from lifting over RxR tracks? 99.9% don't.

Glad you missed the other car.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 04:57 AM   #3
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Its all fun and games. This is the Internet.

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Unread 02-05-2014, 05:27 AM   #4
JasonStebbins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
So back in December i posted about doing rolling burnouts. Harm less post. One reply read "you are an idiot and should not be aloud on the road". Fast forward to yesterday. I was approaching a stop sign with an icey intersection at about 10 mph. Tapped the brakes and started sliding. Just then another car entered the intersection when she saw me she stopped. In the blink of an eye i released brakes turned right to try to steer around the back of her car then cranked hard left and used the skinny pedal to whip my rear end around so it would not hit her rear quater. As to my passenger and her amazment my quick thinking avoided an accident. Now back to my post. I do that kind of stuff, rolling burnouts, doughnuts, drifting, ect, so i know my jeep and how it reacts in all differant situations and scenarios. To avoid what i just avoided. Mind you this situation was not my fault as the road crew never treated this intersection. And if the other car had just kept driving instead of stopping she would have been out of the intersection as i slide past. So to the person who called me an idiot, ha! Thats why i do what i do.
I remember reading that post, and all the replies along with it. Glad you were able to avoid an accident. A lot of people forget how to drive in the winter. I've witnessed at least two crashes over the years where ice was involved where the person just slammed the brakes and cranked the wheel, one resulting in a roll over.

I do 2wd donuts every time there's an open snow-covered parking lot. I'm very aware of how to handle when the rear tires break loose or when the breaks lock up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theGiantPanda View Post
Do you know how to keep your ride from lifting over RxR tracks? 99.9% don't.
I don't. Enlighten me.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 05:57 AM   #5
ZJfamilyfun
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I would have to say that those who do not familiarize themselves with their cars are the unknowledgeable ones who should not be on the roads. I mean hello even law officers do this kind of stuff to know how their rig handles and performs. But what do i know, im just an idiot and shouldn't be aloud on the road. Some times a simple im sorry goes along way. Just sayin. Now as for the keeping your car from lifting over r&r tracks i have thought but cant come up with a technique that would make sense in the world of physics other then lifting off the skinny pedal, down shifting, or just a brake check at the apex. But all those result in a loss of speed. So yes please enlighten us! I would be interested in finding this out thanks.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 06:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
I would have to say that those who do not familiarize themselves with their cars are the unacknowledged ones who should not be on the roads. I mean hello even law officers do this kind of stuff to know how their rig handles and performs. But what do i know, im just an idiot and shouldn't be allowed on the road. Some times a simple im sorry goes along way. Just sayin. Now as for the keeping your car from lifting over r&r tracks i have thought but cant come up with a technique that would make sense in the world of physics other then lifting off the skinny pedal, down shifting, or just a brake check at the apex. But all those result in a loss of speed. So yes please enlighten us! I would be interested in finding this out thanks.
The only thing I've ever been taught about going over RR tracks is to coast over them at an angle if possible, rather then straight on. And if the lights are blinking, stop.

Every winter here in western New York people seem to forget how to drive even though we have six months of it annually. The first month or so each winter there are a ton of car accidents.

This site by AAA is pretty cool and informative. Shows all the driving related laws by each state.

http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/category/...laws/new-york/
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Unread 02-05-2014, 06:17 AM   #7
Timo_90xj
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If you don't learn how a vehicle handles in snow/ ice/ slippery road conditions, you're gonna end up in a ditch or crashing. The more you practice, the better you usually are at controlling the vehicle, and you have a gut feel on how things work - which in turn makes you do instant reactions before you even realize what has happened if you get into a situation. That's how race drivers do their stuff.. Key is where and how you practice. Empty roads? No worries. In the traffic? Hell no. Best places are ice/ snow tracks being plowed to fields or lake ice. They are slippery enough to not need very high speeds to be able to go sideways, but provide enough grip that you're not sliding all over the place all the time.


I 100% agree that the people who don't practice and rely on their ESP, ABS and all the other electric gizmos are the ones who are the danger on the roads. Those people have no clue on what they'd need to do if their car starts to slide or whatever. Heck, it seems to me they usually just stomp on the brake pedal in panic and really do nothing to help prevent an accident. I'm pretty certain that a lot of the drivers these days on their ESP/ABS/ whatever FWD cars wouldn't survive one single trip from home back to work on my Jeep in bad winter weather, even though I've got zero issues whatsoever.


As much as electric aids are good and helpful, they are a problem. Heck, even airline pilots are facing the problems these days: computer aided flying reduces workload and prevents accidents, but at the same time decreases pilot skills on manual flying. When they face an issue easily avoidable by doing their job like they would've done in the early days, they're clueless as to what is happening when their computers crash and need to go to swap to basic manual flying with only basic monitoring systems available. It's a known issue and a big contributing factor in many airline accidents during past 15-20 years. IMO it's the same thing with vehicles - as much as ESP and ABS systems have helped reducing accidents, they also generate drivers who can't drive. The only way to learn is to do it the old fashioned way. You won't know how to control a slide unless you practise how to slide
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Unread 02-05-2014, 07:22 AM   #8
ZJfamilyfun
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I believe its the new toyota commercial that makes me shake my head. Auto braking, on coming car/accident alert and some other ridiculous" safety feature" every time i see it i just lose my mind. Cars that parallel park for you. And yes i only practice this stuff late at night with no traffic or in a parking lot. The only 1 feature i can tolerate and sometimes wish worked on my ZJ is ABS. Other then that its all BS. But thanks everyone for reading about my avoiding an accident due to knowing what to do, and for letting me know that im not the only idiot who should not be aloud on the road. Theres a whole bunch of us! Lol.....
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Unread 02-05-2014, 07:23 AM   #9
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To the original poster....I haven't seen your previous post about the rolling burnout, so I can't comment.

I drive for a living and I have seen enough idiots, whom suffer from the "look at me!" complex and whom are doing this with traffic around them thinking they're cool, while putting everyone else in danger with their reckless behavior...
Those are the ones who should be pulled out of their vehicles and executed on the spot...
If you are not one of those people, than all is good.
If you were doing it in a remote area and away from traffic, it's your tires and your vehicle that gets abused on your dime so I have no issues with that.

There's nothing wrong with practicing the fish tail situations, but I'm not sure if some people realize that they can achieve the same effect on a slippery road, as opposed to a road that is bone dry without tearing up their vehicle too much, since a vehicle on dry pavement has to work much harder to break traction....
This is why when I see someone do it on dry pavement, I can't help but to question their true motives, since I suspect they just want to put on a show for other people because of the smoke and the noise...
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Unread 02-05-2014, 07:45 AM   #10
ZJfamilyfun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_trucker View Post
To the original poster....I haven't seen your previous post about the rolling burnout, so I can't comment.

I drive for a living and I have seen enough idiots, whom suffer from the "look at me!" complex doing this with traffic around them thinking they're cool, while putting everyone else in danger with their reckless behavior...
Those are the ones who should be pulled out of their vehicles and executed on the spot...
If you are not one of those people, than all is good.
If you were doing it in a remote area and away from traffic, it's your tires and your vehicle that gets abused on your dime so I have no issues with that.

There's nothing wrong with practicing the fish tail situations, but I'm not sure if some people realize that they can achieve the same effect on a slippery road, as opposed to a road that is bone dry without tearing up their vehicle too much, since a vehicle on dry pavement has to work much harder to break traction....
This is why when I see someone do it on dry pavement, I can't help but to question their true motives, since I suspect they just want to put on a show for other people because of the smoke and the noise...
Yeah, its always done with no one around. I drive a tow truck for a living and have seen first hand the results of show boating. And have heard first hand from people in the accidents confess that they didnt know what to do and if they did they admitted it could have been avoided. And yes i am aware of wear and tear on vehicals when doing certain things. Not only have i been a tow truck driver for 6 years i was also a certified mechanic for 5. I love driving more then fixing other peoples cars so i switched careers.
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Unread 02-05-2014, 05:24 PM   #11
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I see the same bouts of stupidity EVERY SINGLE DAY around here.. Idiots in a mercedes, pushing it harder than any sane person would. It's a blinding rain, they're tailgating, weaving in and out of traffic, cutting off semi's, racing around waterlogged and flooded roads, etc.. I GUARANTEE if their traction control, esp, abs or any of those other features fail, they will be dead within a month due to their own arrogance and stupidity.
I find absolutely NOTHING wrong with testing your own vehicle's limits and infact very strongly recommend it to every single driver on the roads. If you do not know what your vehicle is capable of and how it performs in extreme conditions, you will freeze up and lose it when those scenarios come about.
I myself will have a great many hours of practice to re-learn driving in the snow and ice when I move back up north. Being down here, it's only waterlogged roads and flooded out areas that I have to worry about along with the occasional hydroplanning. Check out some of the dashcam channels on youtube and look at the car crash channels and you will see exactly what can happen if you rely on your vehicle too heavily and you don't work with your driving skills AND MAINTAIN THEM(can't possibly stress that last bit enough). I'm always around some traffic so I have limited chances to do as you did. Thankfully you made it through that potentially disasterous situation alright.
btw, I saw that thread and was just facepalming on a few of the comments on it lol
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Unread 02-05-2014, 08:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
Now as for the keeping your car from lifting over r&r tracks i have thought but cant come up with a technique that would make sense in the world of physics other then lifting off the skinny pedal, down shifting, or just a brake check at the apex. But all those result in a loss of speed. So yes please enlighten us! I would be interested in finding this out thanks.
youre on the right track... its a not so much a brake check, but yeah, hit the brakes just before the apex... its not so much about 'slowing your speed' it is about control and 'weight transfer.' I want all 4 of my tires to stay in contact with the road, 'jumping' the tracks or 'bouncing' over the tracks may 'keep up your speed' at the time, but its at the expense of a temporary loss of control.. especially in a cop car doing 70+ in chase-or in a higher center of gravity 'lifted jeep' per se', you do not want to "fly over the tracks.' when you do, your suspension unloads at a high rate of transfer, tires loose contact, the weight shift is extreme and the results are ehhh not good.

So, when just about at the apex, or 'at the tracks' on a flat road, give the brakes a little but firm 'push' not a quick 'check.' it is an exercise in weight and kenetic energy control not 'speed.' even going over the tracks at 30 will unload the vehicles suspension enough to allow for external forces [change in ground etc] to change your direction, loose traction, and stability. If you take 2 drivers in a race... one stays to the wood over the tracks, hes going to launch, loose traction, change forward energy into down energy, etc etc. the other driver drives with technique, he will pass the 'airborne' vehicle and maintain speed with forward energy.

when you 'lean' on the brakes before the apex, and then release just before crossing over the same.. you are 'forcing' the weight of the car 'forward and down,' this weight transfer 'loads' the suspension and counter acts the 'uplift' force generated by the grade of the road and keeps all 4 tires in contact with the road-with minimal resulting 'unloading of the suspension.

if you don't apply the techinques appropriately [like in a 'I told you I don't allow un-capped beverages in my car situation,' and they say 'Im your senior officer and I taking it with me'] launching over the railroad tracks with the quickness.... usually and has resulted in your partners French vanilla coffee all over the headliner, floor, computer and of course his uniform... with a quick following of... 'I told you no un capped beverages in my car... you can clean it up when we stop. theres paper towels and cleaner in the back.'

this is how it was explained to me atleast.. I don't know all the scientific terminology.
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Hospital? What, are you suffering from Overextended Jeepaphelia or something? :)
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Unread 02-06-2014, 10:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_trucker View Post
This is why when I see someone do it on dry pavement, I can't help but to question their true motives, since I suspect they just want to put on a show for other people because of the smoke and the noise...
I think the same thing every time I see a trucker pull out going slow into the fast lane in front of a car with feet to spare so that person has to swerve and slam on their brakes to avoid an accident. I think maybe that trucker is just practicing getting a feel for tight spaces or helping the person he cut off get used to emergency maneuvering.

Either way it's all fun and games until the V-Tec kicks in. Then it's on.
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Unread 02-06-2014, 10:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
I think the same thing every time I see a trucker pull out going slow into the fast lane in front of a car with feet to spare so that person has to swerve and slam on their brakes to avoid an accident. I think maybe that trucker is just practicing getting a feel for tight spaces or helping the person he cut off get used to emergency
Are you trying to say something?
Would this be the same idiot 4 wheeler who's sitting in the passing lane, without actually passing anyone, while the trucker needs that lane to move over because there is another rig getting on the highway and he does not want to slam the brakes from 60MPH to about 20MPH with a 40 000 lbs load and slippery road, because some moron doesn't know what a passing lane is for?
Or were you maybe talking about that 4 wheeler cutting across 3 lanes and 2 inches inches away from the truckers bumper, because he/she decided that they forgot about their exit coming up?
Or that 4 wheeler who goes slow and when the truck wants to pass they speed up only to slow down once the trucker gets behind them again?
Were you talking about any of those by any chance?
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Unread 02-06-2014, 11:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_trucker View Post
Are you trying to say something?
Would this be the same idiot 4 wheeler who's sitting in the passing lane, without actually passing anyone, while the trucker needs that lane to move over because there is another rig getting on the highway and he does not want to slam the brakes from 60MPH to about 20MPH with a 40 000 lbs load and slippery road, because some moron doesn't know what a passing lane is for?
Or were you maybe talking about that 4 wheeler cutting across 3 lanes and 2 inches inches away from the truckers bumper, because he/she decided that they forgot about their exit coming up?
Or that 4 wheeler who goes slow and when the truck wants to pass they speed up only to slow down once the trucker gets behind them again?
Were you talking about any of those by any chance?
I see that your name precedes you
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