Front Driveshaft Issues? - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
Front Driveshaft Issues?

4.0, 42re, NP242, CV style Driveshaft with Double Carden Joint

So I pulled my front Driveshaft a few months back to try and nail down some noises and vibrations I had. Over those months I've all but removed any major road vibrations and rough riding through repairs and maintenance, so last weekend I decided to reinstall my front Driveshaft and see how it rode with it back in.

Well, my answer is "not Great". There's now a wailing noise of some sort coming from the front end anytime I let off the gas and just coast or decelerate. At highway speeds the front end feels rougher on the roads than it had been. I haven't dared switch into 4PT or 4FT to try them out.

I had repaired the Double Carden joint about a year or more ago.

Could the DC joint be the issue still? Or am I looking at something else maybe? Could it not be the driveshaft at all but having it in is revealing a hidden issue?

I'm flying blind and am looking for any sort of help.

Thanks!


._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 11:34 AM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 13,791
In 2wd it shouldn't really feel any different with a 242 unless you've got a front output or chain issue in the case. The extra drag of spinning the shaft and chain should not be noticeable.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #3 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
Shouldn't, but that's the thing. It does. It's not constant, but I do feel like there's some additional drag on the front end. Plus there's the noise and roughness at highway speeds.

Should I try shifting it into 4FT for a short while and then shifting back, just to see if maybe it's stuck in 4WD or something?

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
 
post #4 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 01:33 PM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 13,791
Without a front shaft a 242 shouldn't be able toget stuck in 4ft, but it's completely possible. I would try cycling the modes.

The only things that should be spinning now that weren't before are the shaft itself and the front output and chain. Unless the pinion is ****ed in a way that the weight of the DS causes it to make noise and be happy, but you'd notice the pinion not being right when you put in the shaft I'd imagine. The rzeppas are pretty binary when it comes to failure, it's either working or it's ****ting itself, I've never seen one look fine but be bad.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #5 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
I'll cycle modes on my way home tonight and see how she drives tomorrow morning after. Will post results.

EDIT: A friend of mine mentioned the slip joint on the front Axle as a possible issue. Thoughts?

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
post #6 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 03:57 PM
GOLDWING
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: eau claire
Posts: 1,206
The Rzeppa/double cardan shaft is not a slip joint shaft even if it looks like one. The variations in length during suspension oscillation is handled at the C/V (Rzeppa) end with a spline setup.

The shaft with a u-joint at the axle end has a conventional slip joint.

GW

2 '98 4.0 ZJs
Hers is stock, mine, OME shocks, BB, Aussie, 2x6 sliders, 31s, etc.
GOLDWING is offline  
post #7 of 48 Old 09-06-2017, 04:15 PM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 13,791
Yeah, the slip joint is the rzeppa, methinks you'd have noticed when you installed it if it was bad.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #8 of 48 Old 09-07-2017, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
Okay. I took notes. Here's what I noticed the drive home last night.
  • Howling noise that only happens when coasting, not when braking or accelerating. Happens in 2wd at 30MPH and above, but goes away below 30MPH. Harder to notice at higher speeds. Did not exist before putting in front Driveshaft.
  • Weird Warbling noise between 50-60MPH in 2wd. Only when Accelerating. Wheels were recently rebalanced and all lugs are tightened down. Goes away above 60, nonexsistant below 50.
  • Occasionally sticks in 4PT when going back into 2wd, but I figure that's just the nature of the 242.
  • Howling noise akin to howling wins in a haunted house in a bad horror movie. Started after switching to any mode and remained rest of drive.

And this is what I noticed this morning:
  • Heavy binding when turning out of drive this morning, despite being in 2wd. Assuming it was stuck in 4PT overnight and still this morning but not sure?
  • Switched into 4FT for drive in after noticing the binding and once more heard the howling wind noise like a bad horror movie. Started at 20MPH and above.
  • GDM stopped displaying info. Was flickering alot last night after switching modes, but after swapping into 4FT and trying to shift modes while driving, it refused to display any information.

All shifts between 2wd, 4PT and 4FT were done between 25-35MPH, and I even attempted a shift into N and 4Lo at about 5-10MPH in driveway last night.

Thoughts?

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
post #9 of 48 Old 09-07-2017, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
Update:

I took out the Jeep for a run to get lunch today while at work. Did not notice any binding when turning and power distribution seemed normal. I believe it's back in 2wd as the level indicates.

I was unable to get above 25MPH while driving due to lights and traffic, so no idea if it still makes the noises posted earlier. Assuming it will tho.

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
post #10 of 48 Old 09-07-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
Update:

Just got home. Definitely in 2WD and kept it in 2WD for now. Warbling noise mentioned above is now constant above 25 MPH.

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
post #11 of 48 Old 09-07-2017, 04:30 PM
GOLDWING
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: eau claire
Posts: 1,206
As KG mentioned in post #4, did you check for play at the pinion when you put the front driveshaft in? I suggest putting the front axle on jackstands and rotating the shaft by hand while observing for looseness, binding, noises, and if you do not detect anything abnormal, pull the driveshaft and try the pinion yoke and the T/C front output. If still nothing, then pull the diff cover and look there as well as dragging a magnet around in the bottom of the diff case.

If there is still no sign of what is wrong, jack up your radiator cap and drive a gen. 2 ZJ underneath it.

GW

2 '98 4.0 ZJs
Hers is stock, mine, OME shocks, BB, Aussie, 2x6 sliders, 31s, etc.
GOLDWING is offline  
post #12 of 48 Old 09-07-2017, 05:31 PM
kg6mov
Hears the voices
 
kg6mov's Avatar
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cupertino
Posts: 13,791
Yeah, check pinion for play, but if it's not the pinion I'd be amazed if it was in the front axle.

What state was that 242 in when you installed it? This sounds a lot like what I've seen when the chain is screwed up.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
kg6mov is offline  
post #13 of 48 Old 09-08-2017, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
I'll check for Pinion play tonight after work. I didn't notice any when I installed it, but I did have to replace the pinion oil seal over a year ago now. Had also replaced the front diff gasket too. Didn't notice any metals at the time, but this was before I put in the 242 and still had a 249.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kg6mov View Post
What state was that 242 in when you installed it? This sounds a lot like what I've seen when the chain is screwed up.
TBH... not known. When I got the T-case, the yard which I bought it front said it was in serviceable condition. before I installed it I did rotate it at the input shaft, front driveshaft yoke, and rear slip, but not much else. Replaced the T-case fluid but never thought to crack it open and inspect internally.

If the chain is actually bad, should I pull the front D/S again and just drive in 2WD until I can afford an overhaul kit and possibly new chain? Or would I be fine with the Driveshaft in as long as I stay in 2WD and avoid 4PT, 4FT, or 4Lo at all costs?

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
post #14 of 48 Old 09-08-2017, 09:49 AM
1996maroonzjf
Registered User
1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 379
I would bet its the front pinion in your LP D30. I had similar symptoms in the original LP D30 before I swapped in an HP D30.

I cant say for sure about your particular case, but I had a 242 fail on my a few weeks back and it wouldn't stay in 2WD even with the front shaft pulled. It would grind like crazy when in gear unless I was holding the shifter all the way forward to the 2WD position. I think it was popping into neutral? Not positive, I haven't had a chance to open up the case and see what the failure mode was.

-Tim
96 4.0 Laredo, 42RE, NP242, HP30 & D35c 3.55, OME 2.5" HD Coils, Bilstein 5100s, IRO Adj. LCAs
1996maroonzjf is offline  
post #15 of 48 Old 09-08-2017, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
BorderWalker
Registered User
1995 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 1,255
Garage
If the front Pinion is at fault, what's the means of repair? Swapping in a new Yoke or is it gonna be far more than that?

._________.ooooo.
/¯¯¯|¯¯|¯¯\¯¯¯¯¯\,____
L/¯¯\\__|__|"/¯¯¯\=llllll=\
_(¯))===)).....(¯))===))¯
BorderWalker is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome