front axle flex question - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Grand Cherokee & Commander Forums > ZJ Grand Cherokee Forum > front axle flex question

FS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye KitFlowmaster's Force II Axle-back exhaust system for the 201FS: Wranger BRIGHT License Plate LED! Just $3! Great value

Reply
Unread 03-31-2014, 07:37 PM   #16
ZJfamilyfun
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Posts: 161
All due respect, then why are other rigs running w/o. Your argument is contradicting yourself. So you mean to tell me you're running with your end links attached?

ZJfamilyfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2014, 10:58 PM   #17
D-rey
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
Dey r was that stock? The pics.
I believe that they were stock. Like I said, the PO may have put longer ones on there, but they looked original to me. It worked, but I don't recommend it. I put on extended SS lines as soon as I could.
D-rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 10:57 AM   #18
JohnnyZJ
Web Wheeler
 
JohnnyZJ's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,161
you'll break a stock link before it reaches full flex. and quite possibly pop the top of the sway bar link through your fender if you actually do get it up there.

YJ brake lines work well too for extended brake lines

sway bar discos are often sold in tandem to a decent type of suspension that will offer more flex but by them selves are pretty useless in my opinion. especially on a stock ZJ. there is a much cheaper option. just unbolt the stock links when you get to the trail. spend the money on something like an actual lift, or bigger tires.

people buy sway bar disconnects because they don't know any better........ probably read how everyone gets/buys them with a lift kit. i ran a set of discos on my old, old ZJ. last set i'd buy. ran Rough country links on teh last one and just unbolted them at the trail head. was much faster and the joints didn't wear out and clunk.
__________________
92 YJ ~ stage 1; 33" super swampers, 4" lift locked 5 yr plan is 8.8/44 and 37s

RIP 95 ZJ ~ 33s built/longarmed/locked/awesome Feb 2014 ZJOTM winner
JohnnyZJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 11:20 AM   #19
PolkaPower
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss, MD
Posts: 15,736
I bent my axle sway link mount off road from not disconnecting them. No flex in a flexy situation, all that force has to go someplace.
PolkaPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 11:27 AM   #20
CatSplat
Derp.
 
CatSplat's Avatar
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technohead View Post
Note that disconnecting the sway bar does not create additional suspension travel. Connected or not your maximum extension is limited by your shocks.
You're going to have to elaborate on that one. Are you saying that in a purely stock suspension setup, the shocks will max out before the sway links shear off?
__________________
1994 5.9L ZJ, retrofitted UC package, NP242 swap, 17" JK Moabs with 32" BFG MT KM's.
The Jeep of Theseus
CatSplat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 01:19 PM   #21
ZJfamilyfun
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
I bent my axle sway link mount off road from not disconnecting them. No flex in a flexy situation, all that force has to go someplace.
I'm fully aware of the physics of suspension systems. Being I'm certified in steering and suspension systems. I'm just trying to get technohead to back his contradicting statements. My only concern was the brake line.
ZJfamilyfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #22
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 5,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
All due respect, then why are other rigs running w/o. Your argument is contradicting yourself. So you mean to tell me you're running with your end links attached?
Don't mix up axle droop (vertical travel) with suspension flex. Swaybar limits suspension flex (axle articulation) and reduces body roll, but it does not limit vertical movement of the axle. Two different things

If you lift the front or rear of the Jeep up from the body, and let the axle droop, you shouldn't see a difference in vertical suspension travel with the endlinks connected or disconnected. In real life, there can be a slight difference if the swaybar endlink bushings bind, but if there is no binding on the bushings and/or endlinks are long enough there won't be any difference. There will be a LOT of difference in axle articulation though


Quote:
Originally Posted by CatSplat View Post
You're going to have to elaborate on that one. Are you saying that in a purely stock suspension setup, the shocks will max out before the sway links shear off?
The newer style front endlinks will certainly bind at some point, but they shouldn't bind before the shocks run out of travel on a stock system. I do know for a fact that even with stock endlinks on 1.75" BB and longer shocks, rear axle will droop just as far down links connected or disco'd if the shocks are mounted.
__________________
1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 01:52 PM   #23
CatSplat
Derp.
 
CatSplat's Avatar
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
The newer style front endlinks will certainly bind at some point, but they shouldn't bind before the shocks run out of travel on a stock system. I do know for a fact that even with stock endlinks on 1.75" BB and longer shocks, rear axle will droop just as far down links connected or disco'd if the shocks are mounted.
Hm, I don't know about the newer-style, but I seem to remember my front old-style sway links binding before the shock maxed out at full droop. To be fair, I have the UpCountry shocks that were a little bit longer - and it was a while ago, I could be misremembering.

At any rate, it's important to make the distinction between straight travel and articulation. Technohead did seem to be saying that the sway bar does not limit articulation (flex) which I have a hard time believing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technohead View Post
It will still flex to the maximum extension with the sway bar connected. Just not as easily and, most importantly, there will be less normal force (i.e. traction) at the tire that is extending.
__________________
1994 5.9L ZJ, retrofitted UC package, NP242 swap, 17" JK Moabs with 32" BFG MT KM's.
The Jeep of Theseus
CatSplat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 02:06 PM   #24
ZJfamilyfun
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Posts: 161
I wasn't looking at purchasing. Just possibly fabbing a sleeve. But just removing is the way I'm going to go. I just got to fab some sort of hanger/ support to keep the sway bar tucked up and out of the way.
ZJfamilyfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 02:11 PM   #25
Timo_90xj
Web Wheeler
 
Timo_90xj's Avatar
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland - on the European side of the Atlantic
Posts: 5,295
In theory, you could flex the suspension to the same amount with the stock swaybar connected and disco'd, but the force required to do that is so enormous something would definitely bend/ break.
I was talking about straight travel, not articulation. In real- life situation, there is definitely a big difference in amount of flex with the swaybar connected or disco'd. Ie. with a stock 28mm swaybar, one definitely won't be able to max out front axle travel at an RTI ramp.

Now, keep in mind that systems like Currie antirock are anti-sway systems, which do prevent body roll efficiently, while keeping axle travel very close to maximum. But, that is pretty much offtopic..


As for the stock brakelines, I would not run them at anything higher/ better flexing than a budget boost lift. Braided SS hoses are not that expensive, I'd rather invest in a set of them instead of wondering on the trail where the hell all the brake fluid has gone..
__________________
1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 LX daily driver, 1.75" BB, 32" KM2s, HPD30 Eaton e-locker/D44a stock LSD, 4.56 gears, custom- fabbed tube bumpers and tube fenders,...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
Timo_90xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 02:13 PM   #26
PolkaPower
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss, MD
Posts: 15,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJfamilyfun View Post
I wasn't looking at purchasing. Just possibly fabbing a sleeve. But just removing is the way I'm going to go. I just got to fab some sort of hanger/ support to keep the sway bar tucked up and out of the way.
No you don't just push it up out of the way. It will stay. I went though the trouble of fabbing some sway bar holders but I hardly ever used them. This is on rocky trails mostly out in Las Vegas.

If it loosely flops around then your bushings are shot but you already know that since you are all certified.

This is pretty much the same way I made mine. On the drivers side you can use a hole that's for the air box and the pas side I had to drill one. I used them maybe 4-5 times until I realized that the bar never moved even after a rough 30 mile trail.
screen-shot-2014-04-01-4.38.24-pm.jpg

PolkaPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 02:56 PM   #27
CatSplat
Derp.
 
CatSplat's Avatar
1994 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
In theory, you could flex the suspension to the same amount with the stock swaybar connected and disco'd, but the force required to do that is so enormous something would definitely bend/ break.
I was talking about straight travel, not articulation. In real- life situation, there is definitely a big difference in amount of flex with the swaybar connected or disco'd. Ie. with a stock 28mm swaybar, one definitely won't be able to max out front axle travel at an RTI ramp.
I agree. I suspect that even if the sway link didn't break under the kind of load required, you'd have to twist the sway bar in half to even approach max flex. The mass of a ZJ would not even come close to being able to provide that kind of force.
__________________
1994 5.9L ZJ, retrofitted UC package, NP242 swap, 17" JK Moabs with 32" BFG MT KM's.
The Jeep of Theseus
CatSplat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 03:42 PM   #28
ZJfamilyfun
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Posts: 161
Bushings are good. Just never disconnected and driven. Just trying to avoid and eliminate accidental whoops from happening. "Prepare for the unlikely" ...
ZJfamilyfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 03:46 PM   #29
ZJfamilyfun
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alpena, Michigan
Posts: 161
Rather have them tied up and out of the way to make sure nothing happens then to leave it because the bushings are good and it won't move, then it does for some reason fall down and gets wrapped around a brake line. You know what I mean? If it can be avoided then avoid it.
ZJfamilyfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 04:18 PM   #30
PolkaPower
Registered User
1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Abyss, MD
Posts: 15,736
You have quite an imagination. Have you seen how far apart the sway bar is from the brake lines? I see what you are saying so just do what your comfortable with.
PolkaPower is offline   Reply With Quote




Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.