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Unread 03-22-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
jenniferny
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1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lockport, NY, New York
Posts: 127
Expert Opinion time. Please help

I would like all responses, but especially those of ASE Certified technicans.

How likely is it to cross thread lug nuts on a Grand Cherokee to the point that the lug nuts and possibly the studs need to be replaced IF THEY ARE INSTALLED WITHOUT THE USE OF AN IMPACT WRENCH and are installed by hand?

My Jeep is in for repair. I was just told that they have had to replace lug nuts, claiming they were put on to tight. The rear studs were being replaced any way when the new rear axles were installed. I had an issue with a tire shop over tightening my lug nuts last year, so now I specify that they ARE NOT to be installed using an impact (and even put it in writing), only by hand and torqued using a torque wrench. I also now stand and watch as the lug nuts are installed to ensure they are not installed with an impact and a torque wrench is used for the final tighrtening. Then when I get home, I loosen them slightly and retorque them myself using a Snap On TQFR250 torque wrench to be sure they are at proper torque. I set the torque to 100-110 pounds, because that is what I was told the proper torque is for thre 5.9 Limited wheels. Since doing this I now have no problem removing the lug nuts by hand using the standard Snap On Long Handle ratchet so I know that I am on the right track. Before I specified this it was always very difficult to remove lug nuts.

In removing the rear axles they say that the bolt in the center section to allow the axles to come out snapped when they tried to remove it, Ithink its called the C-Clip. On a 98 Grand Cherokee dana 44 is this common? It has about 68,ooo miles on it. Since they damaged the carrier when using a grinder and torch to get the carrier out I had to now replace the center section case. This meant that the gears now had to be set up with the proper clearances, which they say was properly done.

Now the final paragraph.

I was also just told that at least one of the front lug nuts was cross threaded when the mechanic there just installed the lug nuts. It was tightened completely in this state because they were preparing to return it to me and would have been given back without telling me until I asked them if they had done a specific repair on the front. They had not, and when they tried to remove the lug nuts at least one was cross threaded and tightened so bad that they were going to have to use a Oxy-Acteelyne torch to burn it off.

My question is:
1) Is it even possible to install the lug nuts all the way by hand and do this type of damage if the lug nuts were installed by hand without the use of an impact gun?
2) Is it likely that the mechanic that did the work did not know what he had done, or would it have been to difficult to tighten the lug nuts completely by hand without knowing?
3) Is it likely that with the other issues mentioned above, the rear end clearances were properly set, or should I be concerned I am likely to have issues and expensive repairs in the future?
4) Is there a way to do a cursory basic check externally to roughly check clearances to see if they are at least close enough or do I have to open the differential?

I know when it arrived they were properly torqued because I did the torque myself to be sure the torque was right and at that torque, as I already stated, I am able to remove them by hand using only a 1/2" ratchet. It has also not been long since they were off and re installed and torqued so corrosion could not have been an issue.

As always, thank you every one on the Jeep Forum for your help!!!

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Unread 03-23-2013, 12:24 AM   #2
ratmonkey
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1 yep, any idiot can over tighten anything and cross thread it. i deal with this crap all the time in an industrial setting at work. they hire farmers who think they're millwrights and those morons over tighten everything they touch.
2. nope, he totally knew he was screwing it up and didn't care.
3. i'd be concerned about the work done. who uses a grinder to remove a broken bolt? no idiot i know would even try that. broken pinion shaft lock screws are so common there's several kits made specifically for extracting them while the case is in the differential.
4. only way to know is to use a dial indicator for back lash, gear marking compound, and remove the axle shafts and take a pinion rotating torque reading. essentially taking all the measurements that are done when a gear set is installed. but, when installing a new carrier with the same gears they don't "usually" have to change the shims. most carriers and bearings are close enough in tolerances to be able to re-use the same shim stacks. even then, if they had to change any shims it would likely have only been for backlash reasons and that's just the shims on the carrier and shouldn't have taken more than 2-3 attempts to get correct. there's a set ratio that backlash changes for any change in shim stack for pretty much every axle ever made.
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Unread 03-23-2013, 02:30 AM   #3
jenniferny
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1998 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lockport, NY, New York
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
1 yep, any idiot can over tighten anything and cross thread it. i deal with this crap all the time in an industrial setting at work. they hire farmers who think they're millwrights and those morons over tighten everything they touch.
2. nope, he totally knew he was screwing it up and didn't care.
3. i'd be concerned about the work done. who uses a grinder to remove a broken bolt? no idiot i know would even try that. broken pinion shaft lock screws are so common there's several kits made specifically for extracting them while the case is in the differential.
4. only way to know is to use a dial indicator for back lash, gear marking compound, and remove the axle shafts and take a pinion rotating torque reading. essentially taking all the measurements that are done when a gear set is installed. but, when installing a new carrier with the same gears they don't "usually" have to change the shims. most carriers and bearings are close enough in tolerances to be able to re-use the same shim stacks. even then, if they had to change any shims it would likely have only been for backlash reasons and that's just the shims on the carrier and shouldn't have taken more than 2-3 attempts to get correct. there's a set ratio that backlash changes for any change in shim stack for pretty much every axle ever made.
Ratmonkey, THANK YOU for responding. I was afraid that would be the response. I knew he was full of it because I knew they were not overtightened because I torqed them myself to be sure. It is amazing how many shops still have to hunt for a torque wrench when you ask that your Aluminum wheels be properly torqued using the correct spec. I know there are a lot of good and highly qualified techs out there, its just finding them that is difficult. From many of your posts that I have read, you sound like one of the good ones that care about the qualitty of work they do. I was a service writer in a Dodge/Chrysler dealership years ago. We had top notch tech, but a couple hacks always made there way in from time to time and I had to deal with a lot of their comebacks and irrate customers. I even had one of them tell me to sell a new distributor cap with the tune up on a three year old car. When I asked to see the prroblem with the cap so I could explain it to the customer, he took a hammer and smashed the cap right in front of me. We, the service dept., ended up eating the cap and he was gone within a week. The Service writers and service manager got bonuses based on service dept profits, so eating that cap took money out of all of our pockets. I worked there for almost exactly one year. I was specifically hired because of my customer service skills and attitude. During that year we won Chryslers Service Excellence award beginning the second quarter after I started and won every quarter until I was lured away by someone else that offered me more money and better benefits. Beginning the first quarter after I left and for as long as I kept touch with some of the employees there, they never won it again. The worst part is that it is no harder to do it right than it is to do it half a$$ed, you just have to care. Thats my opinion anyway.

Thanks Again!!
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