[coralman]

Tagging along,cause this is on my list.

[Uniblurb]

Welcome to tag along coralman.

About the only thing I did was put some RTV on the brake booster rubber grommet to stop the vacuum leak and thought I'd wait a day before starting. Also put a small amount of Vaseline on the inside of the rubber hose ends since won't be able to turn this grommet anymore to get the hose out of the way. Hose now removes from the booster tube/intake easily.

Have been reading up and have a couple theories why my fuel might be leaning out, especially after idling for 15 min with engine hot. Read where a dirty air filter can restrict the airflow through the intake causing the MAPS, and maybe other throttle body sensors, to send misinformation to the PCM. My air cleaner sure doesn't look dirty, still white, but I blow it out/off with a compressor instead of changing it. Can still see light through it but may change it out since already have a new one.

But one problem might be is when I just installed a new rad the piece-of-crap "Ambient air duct" which attaches to the air cleaner box came loose. In looking at this opening right behind the grill I bet there is only a 1" opening with the curved nose stopping enough air from entering the system/intake. It doesn't help the rubber flap which attaches to the rad side seems to be partially blocking this intake. I know the nose is supposed to stop rain/snow from going into the box but almost feel like cutting this off. May do some alterations today to make sure I'm getting enough air through the intake.

While my engine doesn't overheat, never goes beyond 210 degrees, I wouldn't doubt my fuel line attached to the outside of the real hot intake could possibly be sending super hot fuel back to the original fuel pump causing it to malfunction. Kind of like when I had the manifold leak blowing super hot exhaust on this line but not quite as bad. Know these OEM fuel pumps don't like hot gas and were almost recalled.

I may be off on these theories and just thought I'd mention them. I'm planning on re-torquing the manifold/intake bolts today. May also order a downstream/cat O2 sensor just because it's only $41.50 and don't know if it's bad.

[ZeeJay1997]

The stuff you mentioned as theories are valid, but probably not causing the problem.

Your air box and inlet are probably okay. Run it w/o an air filter for a few blocks. If the problem is still there, move on to other ideas. I went through the same thought process and drilled some 1/4 holes in the lip of the air ram and the bottom of the air box. Didn't do a bit of good.

I regards to the fuel line, this engine doesnt send fuel back and every 4.0 has the fuel line in the same place. The only way it could possibly affect the drivability is if the exhaust manifold was leaking and over heating it and boiling moving fuel on it way past the heat source. Once again, I went through the same thought process, good idea, just not worth a crap.

So, go retorque the manifold and quit thinking so hard!

You may not want to listen to me, my 4.0 still runs like crap. LOL. Just haven't had the dough to replace the cat back. Does your engine rev okay under load? Will it exceed about 3-3,5K RPM when you stomp it?

[Uniblurb]

Thanks Zee, know I'm reading waay too much into this, and I'll go retorque the header bolts.

Believe it will go up to 3K-3.5K when I kick the passing gear in. Or are you talking about a stall test when sitting still? Always has seemed like my engine doesn't have near the power it used to and not even close to the power my 93 4.0 XJ (5 speed, manual) has with 238K miles or wife's 2000 4.0 Wrangler has. Mine's a dog compared to those engines and I even have trouble bring it up to freeway speed to merge into traffic w/o kicking in the passing gear.

Another weird thing is when I make a gradual, or sharp, left turn it seems to have even less power. It's been that way for years and I always keep my gas tank at least half full. Go figure.

[jeepgal2k12]

Originally Posted by coralman

Tagging along,cause this is on my list.

Ditto...
I'm wondering how much better the fancy ones work...I have a $100-something dollar one with accordion joints...

[ZeeJay1997]

I'm speaking of the full throttle through the gears. Mine used go to almost red line before the PCM problems started. Then driving it w/bad PCM and cracked manifold ruined the CAT and probably stopped up the muffler and tail pipe. You may have the same affliction.

[coralman]

I agree with the Zee. With any aftermarket, including headers, the first thing you should do is lay a heavy duty straight edge against the flange. I went through 3 apn headers before I found one with a decent flat flange. The guy would send it,I'd send it back. It finally aggrevated him so much that he went in the warehouse and rummaged through them with a straight edge till he found one he figured would suit me.

That said, retighten the bolts and go from there. Just doing that from what what I've read is impossible to torque to value on the bottom bolts. I only go full throttle when road rage gets me and the idiot in front of me just pulled out and does 2 miles an hour. Last time I did i wasn't looking at the rpm's but next time I will.

If you discover that you do indeed have a leak and tightening just doesn't cut it you might want to try this gasket. It will be the one I use when I do mine. It's expensive but from what I have absorbed it is one good gasket and may cure minor irregularities{?} in the flange plane.

[coralman]

http://catalog.remflex.com/category_s/85.htm LOL,forgot to post it.

[ZeeJay1997]

Originally Posted by coralman

from what what I've read is impossible to torque to value on the bottom bolts.

Someone wasnt trying hard enough. With the right combination of extensions adapters, etc, I was able to go straight on to them from the top with the torque wrench just outboard of the intake. Taking the fuel line bracket, airbox, and ABS connect loose gives the clearance for the head of the TW. I shopped around in my toolbox for a while before I hit the jackpot with the right combo.

Actually, I had a tougher time with the top one because i couldnt get straight on them with the TW. I sure could have used one of these

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....roup_ID=674854

But i improvised with a 9/16 combo wrench. if anyone does this remember that you must be exactly perpendicular to the center line if the TW to maintain accuracy.

i think I'm going to get another gasket. The one that came with the Dorman didnt look right, but I used it anyway. Once I tightened the bolts, I could see the outer laminate separating. Don't know if this is normal.

[Uniblurb]

Originally Posted by ZeeJay1997

Someone wasnt trying hard enough. With the right combination of extensions adapters, etc, I was able to go straight on to them from the top with the torque wrench just outboard of the intake. Taking the fuel line bracket, airbox, and ABS connect loose gives the clearance for the head of the TW. I shopped around in my toolbox for a while before I hit the jackpot with the right combo.

Actually, I had a tougher time with the top one because i couldnt get straight on them with the TW. I sure could have used one of these

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....roup_ID=674854

But i improvised with a 9/16 combo wrench. if anyone does this remember that you must be exactly perpendicular to the center line if the TW to maintain accuracy.

i think I'm going to get another gasket. The one that came with the Dorman didnt look right, but I used it anyway. Once I tightened the bolts, I could see the outer laminate separating. Don't know if this is normal.

Well, I re-torqued all the bolts/front nut, and the only one I couldn't get to was the very far back stud/nut since it's right up against the trans filler tube. But I made sure that one was to spec since knew I wouldn't be able to get to it again.

As far as straight perpendicular to the head w/TW, that wasn't going to happen unless I removed everything from the intake. Also where the throttle body sits the intake juts down 1-2" on the bottom so there was no way to get to those 2 bolts straight-on with a TW to begin with. I did find 1 bottom bolt which was not the correct torque and must have missed that one on the final torque before. So was glad to find it/do a re-torque in the proper sequence.

And I did only remove the air cleaner box, fuel line bracket and ABS plug clip. But had to use a swivel on the socket to get around things.

As coralman mentioned before I even put the new manifold on I put a straight edge on the flange and it looked perfectly straight. Had also sanded every imperfection from where the manifold bolts up with real fine emery cloth. Even filed a few super sharp edges on the new manifold with a fine file. But I didn't like the gasket with the Dorman header either. Slightly bent in one place, which I straightened, and we'll see.

Also threw a new air filter in and had RTV'd the brake booster grommet leak yesterday. Ran it at idle for 20 min, fuel never leaned out, and never missed a beat. Had the scanner connected the whole time and still can't understand why once in a while both the LT & ST FTRM1 will read 0.00. But all the other readings were ok so happy about that along with the lopping is gone. But I've yet to drive it and I'm sure the outside temp being 72 today instead of 92 had to help.

One of the reasons I let it idle so long was I was also charging the AC system at the same time, with a gauge set kit, while checking other things. Believe with the compressor/clutch kicking on repeatedly it may have put a little strain on the engine but sure didn't show it.

Actually Zee I don't think I've ruined my new cat yet because it's hardly been driven in 2 months since I put it on. Believe a new Mopar CKP, with the paper spacer attached, may have solved my stall/no-start problem. One of the reasons it's been sitting so long. Can't believe the last Mopar CKP only lasted 1/2 years but maybe the bad PCM I replaced killed it?

I'll take it out, give it full throttle, and let you know what it does in the quarter mile! LOL.

[ZeeJay1997]

Originally Posted by Uniblurb

As far as straight perpendicular to the head w/TW, that wasn't going to happen unless I removed everything from the intake. Also where the throttle body sits the intake juts down 1-2" on the bottom so there was no way to get to those 2 bolts straight-on with a TW to begin with. I did find 1 bottom bolt which was not the correct torque and must have missed that one on the final torque before. So was glad to find it/do a re-torque in the proper sequence.

Glad you made some headway and hopefully you're done for a while.

I was trying to convey that you have to be straight on or 90 degrees off the centerline of the TW for accurate torque application. If you used a swivel, the torque setting it compromised. There are formulas for figuring torque based on extensions and angles. I dont know how critical it is in this application, but something to keep in mind when wrenching.
If anyone is so inclined or bored here's some info
http://www.freeinfostuff.com/TorqueE...eExtension.htm

[Uniblurb]

Originally Posted by ZeeJay1997

Glad you made some headway and hopefully you're done for a while.

I was trying to convey that you have to be straight on or 90 degrees off the centerline of the TW for accurate torque application. If you used a swivel, the torque setting it compromised. There are formulas for figuring torque based on extensions and angles. I dont know how critical it is in this application, but something to keep in mind when wrenching.
If anyone is so inclined or bored here's some info
http://www.freeinfostuff.com/TorqueE...eExtension.htm

Interesting article and I read through it, thanks. I remember using a crows-foot, in hard to get to places, at work before.

Well, at least I hope the torques settings are close to each other. Yeah, had a lot of variables in there including a 1/2"- 3/8" reducer, 2 extensions, a swivel, and torquing at an angle.

Hoping I'm done for a while too and time to be driving the Jeep I like the most.

[coralman]

Thanks for the read Zee, it went into favorites. Good luck Uni.

[Uniblurb]

Thanks for the luck coralman and maybe it helped!

Took it out on a 10 miles test drive and put it through it's paces. At a dead stop/full throttle it shifted from 1st to 2nd at 3.5-3.6K rpm and from 2nd to 3rd at 3K. So has plenty of power/running real good. But when in 3rd gear, or OD, it doesn't have much power/throttle unless I kick in the passing gear. Maybe this is the nature of the beast with a 4.0 w/193K miles or it wouldn't show much response if locked into high geared OD.

So I'm good to go and just hope things don't change when we get back in the 90's. Original problems were all heat/temp related and won't even go there. Should mention all the scanner readings are good/within spec, except when the crazed LT/ST FTRM1 reads 0.00 which just doesn't make sense since it's running. Also glad someone talked me out of throwing a new o2 sensor at it when it didn't need it. ; )

Thanks Zee for all your help through this 2 month ordeal. I really appreciate all your input and advice.

PS. hope you figure out the power problems with your 97 and get it back to where it was before.

[hdrocknroll]

UNI: I hope you don't mind me puting this here


http://www.freeinfostuff.com/TorqueE...eExtension.htm

Make a Torque Wrench Extension

Background



I have a decent "clicker" type torque wrench with a range of 15 – 150 ft-lbs. I recently had to pull the front hub from my car. When installing it back on, the spindle nut needed to be torqued to 180 ft-lbs. What to do? My first inclination was to buy another torque wrench, at a cost of about $120 (for a decent one). But how often am I going to use it? Practically never.



An alternative was to make a special extension which will multiply the torque. I DO NOT mean an extension like this:

A regular straight extension like the one above does not change the effective length of your torque wrench, and will therefore not have any affect on the torque setting.



Now look at this:

The big difference is that the extension shown above does increase the effective length of the torque wrench. As a result, the actual torque applied to the bolt will be higher than the setting on the torque wrench.



The extension shown in the above picture is called a crowfoot extension, which can be handy when trying to torque hard-to-reach bolts. You must, however, use a formula to account for the length of the extension:

wrench setting = desired torque x wrench length / (wrench length + extension length)

For example lets say that the length of the torque wrench is 18 inches, and the length of the extension is 6 inches. The desired torque is 180 ft-lbs.



Wrench setting = 180 x 18 / (18 + 6)

= 180 x 18 / 24

= 135 ft-lbs.



If the torque wrench is set to 135 ft-lbs, the actual torque applied to the bolt will be 180 ft-lbs.





You can try plugging in numbers below for your particular torque wrench. When measuring the length of your torque wrench, be sure to measure from the center of the handle to the center of the ratchet head.



inchesLength of Torque Wrench inchesExtension Length ft-lbsDesired Torque ft-lbsSet wrench to this


Here are some handy multiplication factors based on the above numbers:



With a(n) inch extension,



multiply the wrench setting by (to get the applied torque)

-OR-

multiply the desired torque by (to get the wrench setting)



Rather than using a crowfoot extension, I decided to make my own extension so that I can use sockets. Then all I have to do is apply the above formula. And actually you don’t even need to do that. All you need to do is apply the above multiplication factors.





Making The Extension



The extension must have a female fitting on one end, for attaching to the torque wrench. On the other end it needs a male fitting to attach sockets. Since my torque wrench takes 1/2" sockets, all the examples below are for a 1/2" extension. If your torque wrench is 3/8" or 1/4", then resize as needed.



Parts List:

5/8" drill bit ($7 at Menards)

1/2" socket extension, 6" long ($7 at Menards)

3/8" x 1.5" x 12" steel bar ($9 from local steel supplier)

$23 total







Step 1: Get a steel bar 1.5" wide



Your first decision is what thickness to get. I recommend 3/8 to 1/2", to help hold the fittings straight during welding. You want the fittings to be 90° to the bar. If you use a thinner bar, be careful to keep the fittings straight while welding.



You will be drilling 5/8" holes in the steel, so I would not go much narrower than 1.5" wide.



Menards sells a 1/4" x 1.5" x 36" bar for about $10. You could cut two pieces and tack-weld them together to make it 1/2" thick. Instead, I visited a local steel supplier and had them cut me a 12" piece of 3/8" steel for a total cost of $9. Look in the phone book under "Steel Distributors".



Another decision is what type of steel to get. Admittedly I know nothing about steel. There are numerous grades of carbon steel, and lots of different alloys. And then there's hot-rolled steel and cold-rolled steel. After some research, I concluded that regular carbon steel is inexpensive and will work just fine. No need for any special alloys. Bottom line - buy something cheap. If it is 3/8" to 1/2" thick it will be plenty strong!



The length of the extension is up to you. Make it long enough to handle the highest torque you think you might need. I chose 10" for mine, which will allow my 150 ft-lb torque wrench to handle jobs up to 240 ft-lbs.



NOTE: When I say a 10" extension, I mean that the holes will be drilled 10" apart. To accommodate that, my bar is 12" long.

Here is a calculator you can use to help choose the length of the extension:

inchesLength of Torque Wrench ft-lbsMaximum Torque Setting
of your torque wrench
ft-lbsDesired Maximum Torque inchesMinimum Extension Length


The calculator will tell you how far apart the fittings must be. To determine the overall length of the extension, add about 2 inches. This will allow for 1" of extra material at each end of the bar.





Step 2: Get a regular straight extension and cut it in half



Get yourself a 6" socket extension like this:

NOTE: Not all extensions have the same diameter shaft. It varies with the manufacturer. Drill bits only come in fixed sizes. Menards has a 9/16" bit and a 5/8" bit.



Please remember that the extension is chrome plated. Welding on chrome will create toxic fumes, so you should lightly grind away the chrome plating before welding. This will slightly reduce the diameter, so get an extension with a diameter slightly larger than the drill bit.



After checking at a variety of stores, I found that the best extension was at Menards. After grinding away the chrome plating, it fits nicely into a 5/8" hole.



After you have chosen an appropriate extension, cut it in half like this:

In the above picture you can see that I have already ground off the chrome plating.

Wait until after welding before you cut these any shorter.





Step 3: Drill holes in the steel bar



Hopefully you have a drill press, so that the holes will be nice and straight. Here is my bar after drilling 5/8" holes 10" apart:

Step 4: Weld the ends onto the steel bar

You must be careful when welding the female end. This is because when you are using the extension, it should be aligned with the torque wrench (see "Sources of Errors" below). You do not want the extension to be cocked at an angle. To align the extension to the wrench, you would typically ratchet the wrench around until the two are lined up. BUT, the ratchet mechanism has distinct steps. If you are unlucky, it will not ratchet into a position where the extension is lined up to the wrench. You do not want to discover this after welding the female fitting into position! You should weld the female end following these steps:

1. Insert the female fitting onto your torque wrench.
2. Insert the other end of the female fitting into the extension.
3. Insert the end of the fitting into a vise and let the torque wrench "hang" against the ratchet mechanism. This will remove any slack.
4. Put a level on the torque wrench, and adjust the wrench until it is level. You may need to loosen the vise to adjust for level. The wrench should be level when it is hanging against the ratchet mechanism.
5. Put a level on the extension and then turn the extension until it is level.
6. Mark the location of the female fitting on the extension.
7. Remove the torque wrench and tack-weld the female fitting into position.

Now check your work:

1. Clamp the extension into a vise.
2. Put a level on the extension and adjust it to level.
3. Plug the torque wrench onto the extension and let it hang against the ratchet mechanism.
4. Check that the torque wrench is level.

If everything looks good, then permanently weld the female fitting.

If you need to make an adjustment, then grind-off the tack welds and repeat the process.



Take your time so that the extension and the wrench line up properly. Don't worry, it doesn't have to be perfect. You might want to review the section on angular errors. Click <here>.



After you have welded the female fitting into position, weld the male fitting. The position of the male fitting is not critical. Here is my finished extension:

That's it! Your extension is now ready for use.







Sources of Errors



Worried that using an extension might cause inaccurate torques? I don't blame you. Here are the various errors that can be introduced when using an extension:

1. If you do not accurately measure the length of the torque wrench.
2. If you do not accurately measure the length of the extension.
3. If the extension is not perfectly lined up with the torque wrench.

The above errors are in addition to the calibration accuracy of your torque wrench. If you are reasonably careful, each of the above errors will be negligible. But just how careful do you need to be? See the following:





A & B - Wrench Length and/or Extension Length is Incorrect

Try plugging numbers into the following boxes to see what happens if you are sloppy when measuring the length of your torque wrench or the length of the extension.

First enter baseline info:

Measured length of the torque wrench

Measured length of the extension

Torque setting on the wrench






OK. Lets say you did not accurately measure the length of the torque wrench (i.e. the length you entered above is wrong). Fill in the "actual" length below and then click on the Calculate button to see the resulting error. The error will be listed below.



Actual length of the torque wrench









This is what you "thought" the applied torque was going to be: ft-lbs



Here is the error from not properly measuring the length of the torque wrench:




Applied TorquePercent Error

ft-lbs

%

Lets say that you did not accurately measure the length of the extension. Fill in the "actual" length

below and then click on the Calculate button to see the resulting error. (make sure that the baseline info is filled in above)



Actual length of the extension









This is what you "thought" the applied torque was going to be: ft-lbs



Here is the error from not properly measuring the length of the extension:




Applied TorquePercent Error

ft-lbs

%

You can see that 1/4" does not cause much of an error on the wrench length. A 1/8" error is not bad on the extension length. You should have no trouble keeping these errors to a minimum.







C - The Extension is Not Lined up With the Wrench

If things are not lined up, you will have an angle between the extension and the wrench. This will reduce the effective length of the extension as shown:

Dimension "R" represents the actual length of the extension

Dimension "X" represents the effective length of the extension



Try plugging numbers into the following boxes to see what happens if you are sloppy when aligning the extension with the wrench:



First enter baseline info:

Length of the torque wrench (dimension "L")

Length of the extension (dimension "R")

Torque setting on the wrench





Now enter angle "A" and click on the Calculate button. The error will be listed below.



Angle "A"









If you had properly lined up the extension with the torque wrench,

the applied torque would have been ft-lbs



Here is the error from not properly aligning the extension and the wrench:




Applied TorquePercent Error

ft-lbs

%

Effective length of the extension: inches


An angle as big as 10° does not make a very big error. But be careful -- it is not linear. The error at 20° is a lot more than double what it is at 10°. Moral: keep the angle at 10° or less.



Notice that if the angle reaches 90°, the effective length of the extension becomes zero and the applied torque is exactly the same as the wrench setting. It's like not using an extension at all. This means that if you ever use an extension at 90°, just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and then torque the bolt.





You might be wondering what a 10° angle looks like. This will give you an idea:

Plug in the overall length of your wrench (from the center of the ratchet head to the end of the handle). Also plug in the angle. Then click on the Calculate button to see how high your wrench would tilt:



inches

overall wrench length



degrees

angle of the wrench









For a degree angle, your wrench would tilt inches up (dimension "X" above)



You should have no difficulty keeping this error to a minimum.







USING YOUR EXTENSION



Using your extension is very straightforward:

1. Attach the appropriate socket to the extension.
2. Set the torque wrench using the multipliers from the previous text (see <here>).
3. Attach the torque wrench to the extension.
4. Align the extension and the torque wrench. If it does not align very good then unplug the wrench, turn the ratchet 90°, and try again.
5. Torque the bolt.

Sometimes a range is given for a torque specification. In Step 2, set your torque wrench for the middle of the range so that if you have a small error, the applied torque will be within range.







CONCLUSION



Making a torque wrench extension is relatively easy and inexpensive, and is a viable alternative to purchasing a separate torque wrench that will get very little use. With a little care, potential errors can easily be kept to negligible levels.