Electric fan install Question - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
Damien_
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Electric fan install Question

Ok I have read the threads on the efan install (or I am reading them... they are long) I have my fan and shroud from a 3.8 liter 1995 Merc Sable. Also I learned when I did my transfer case that there is no such thing as too much research. I believe this mod will go smoothly for me. But I do have some questions...

1 is there a consensus on which fan controller is best? I see 2 being talked about. The DCControls 2SP unit. Is their still a month or so lead time on these? The other is the Dakota Digital PAC-2750 Making my own is possible but I think I will lose some functions I want. Making the fan run after shutdown and making it come on with the AC. I want these features. Is there another controller I missed?


2 on the wires to my fan is some sort of controller box. What is it? Can I use this for anything? Should I discard it? Here are pics

Says 40AR (amp relay? amp rating?)


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post #2 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 10:59 AM
kg6mov
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That's just a fuse block.

I've not heard good things about those controllers. The most reliable way to do it is with relays like the niner did.

This is how I did it: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/n...2/index12.html


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1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
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I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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With the Volvo/BMW setup do you get the fan on with the AC? After Shutdown? If I have to lose one of these I would rather lose the after shutdown thing

That is one of the threads I have been reading. The purpose built system seemed better but if they're unreliable I would rather build.
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 11:24 AM
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What is most important is the sensor. The ones that touch the coolant like kg5mov uses are the best but they do fail from time to time. The Dakota controller can use the stock sensor if you know what you are doing and want to spend some time on the project. I've not tried one of those controllers.

Don't use the cheap sensors that stick into the radiator, the ones you get at Pepboys, they are crap. The DC Control sensor does plug into the radiator a slight bit and is quite a bit different and works pretty well

If I were to buy a controller, it would be the DC Controls FK75 or FK95 and I would mount it where it got plenty of airflow. That controller will let you ramp the fan up and down, curtailing system spikes and sags. Also, you can program it to run at at least 10% all the time so your engine bay doesn't become an oven. And program it to stay on awhile after shutdown. Plus you only use the high winding of your 2 speed fan. If that dies, you could hardwire the low winding and get home.

Use big wire and make the runs as short as possible.
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post #5 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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I definitely want a proper sensor and NOT a stick probe into the Radiator

Off my fan I have a Black/red a black/white and a solid black. I assume the solid black is ground and the others are low and high. Is this correct?
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post #6 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien_ View Post
With the Volvo/BMW setup do you get the fan on with the AC? After Shutdown? If I have to lose one of these I would rather lose the after shutdown thing

That is one of the threads I have been reading. The purpose built system seemed better but if they're unreliable I would rather build.
I get no fan on AC, though I could add it. Fan does run after shutdown, but I could fix that too.

It runs the fan the way it's built to be run, I'm not a fan of the controllers that only use one winding on the motor.

I tend to go for simple and reliable. Haven't had a problem.


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1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

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I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 11:44 AM
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Probably, but assume nothing. A broken efan requires a tow home or a clutch fan/shroud installed onsite.

If you want the ultimate controller you will have to build and you still won't get the ramping. But if you use big wire, at least 10 and preferably 8 and keep the runs short, that will minimize the spiking and sagging. Use freewheeling diode(s) too. A big bad alternator is nice.

Another problem is the fan will only run whilst the AC compressor is engaged. But it is supposed to run all the time the AC is engaged (it probably will anyway due to the high temps). But anyway the root problem has been solved by some folks using a timer circuit which is enabled by the compressor enable. So in essence you would be doing something like telling the fan to run for a full 90 seconds whenever the compressor engages. The timer could be used to keep the fan on after shutdown too.
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post #8 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Seems there are no Volvo OEM controllers left only after market. Might hit the JY and see what they have.

I understand what the freewheeling diodes do but not where they go in the wiring, no diagram I have yet seen shows their placement.

KG6MOV says his fan does run after shutdown, maybe because he didn't connect it through the ignition? I am ok with that.
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 01:07 PM
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Yes, I didn't use a switched ignition source on purpose. My jeep isn't a daily, it's a trail pig.

I honestly don't recommend efans for daily drivers. A mechanical fan cools better in most circumstances.


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1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

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I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
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post #10 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Mine will likely be used as a winter 4WD and a tow vehicle. I don't like the way the fan clutch work in town under a load.
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post #11 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 02:39 PM
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I wouldn't tow with an efan if you had a gun to my head. The niner had a lower tow rating because of the efan, and the ford fan pulls less CFM.


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1984 F250, 460 BB, T19, work truck/future tow pig
1987 Mercedes 300D Turbo, the diesel daily, 30mpg in style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas ZJ1 View Post
I heard someone yell "mall crawler" from the back porch. I'll go see who said that. Be right back.
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post #12 of 33 Old 07-27-2017, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien_ View Post
KG6MOV says his fan does run after shutdown, maybe because he didn't connect it through the ignition? I am ok with that.
I had mine that way. Battery killer.

Here is the freewheeling diode info. FYI, the circuit uses 4 relays but can be modified to use only 3. I used this for years, the design as is is bulletproof but not quite as simple as it could be.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/e...9/#post4264094

With this circuit, you can manually turn the fan off/low/high. Or it has an 'Auto' mode that cycles the fan off/loww/high. You would need to add the timer to the AC input line for proper AC and after shutdown operation. And it won't ramp or stay on all time at x percent.
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post #13 of 33 Old 07-28-2017, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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I don't care to install any manual control. I want full automatic control. I am not an avid trail runner. Very light off-road if there is a purpose like getting to a campsite. I have no interest in trail running as a sport. Though I do like seeing the pics of others doing it. Great schematic thanks.

So the FW diodes ground out any power generated by the FW fan but why don't they ground out the power coming from the relay when the fan is on? (edit later) After a bit more study on diodes and your schematic I think I see where I was confused on this issue.

kg6Mov has convinced me to use the volvo relay/BMW temp switch combo. Though he hasn't talked me out of the efan. ;-)

AC compressor wire to the temp sensor wire... high speed side So does the compressor kick in (even if I have the ac off) whenever the fan goes to high speed? If so then a timer setup might be the way to go to get AC at startup. (of course if the high speed fan is necessary I likely have the ac on anyway)

FW Diodes on the hi/low main power leads to ground

Bigger alternator likely a 136amp since that's a bolt on. I did see reference to a 200amp but not sure if that's a bolt on replacement or not

I like the indicator lights you have there showing the fan speed

Thank you both for your help.
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post #14 of 33 Old 07-28-2017, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien_ View Post
I don't care to install any manual control. I want full automatic control. I am not an avid trail runner. Very light off-road if there is a purpose like getting to a campsite. I have no interest in trail running as a sport. Though I do like seeing the pics of others doing it. Great schematic thanks.

So the FW diodes ground out any power generated by the FW fan but why don't they ground out the power coming from the relay when the fan is on? (edit later) After a bit more study on diodes and your schematic I think I see where I was confused on this issue.

kg6Mov has convinced me to use the volvo relay/BMW temp switch combo. Though he hasn't talked me out of the efan. ;-)

AC compressor wire to the temp sensor wire... high speed side So does the compressor kick in (even if I have the ac off) whenever the fan goes to high speed? If so then a timer setup might be the way to go to get AC at startup. (of course if the high speed fan is necessary I likely have the ac on anyway)

FW Diodes on the hi/low main power leads to ground

Bigger alternator likely a 136amp since that's a bolt on. I did see reference to a 200amp but not sure if that's a bolt on replacement or not

I like the indicator lights you have there showing the fan speed

Thank you both for your help.
When I said battery killer I was using the cheap thermoswitches. Sometimes the fan would run a long time after shutdown. The kgmov sensor should work better. But still you are draining the battery and then letting it sit.

You would eliminate the mode switch to be fully auto.

Yes the diodes ground out the power made by a freewheeling fan. They also keep the relay contacts from arcing. Google that one, its about inductance.

Applying 12vdc to the AC input of the diagram would turn the fan on high regardless of what the compressor is doing. The compressor is only enabled for short times and that is done via your ZJ's ATC module (I think).

I really liked the indicator lamps. You can correlate coolant temp to fan mode. I used 5mm LEDs.
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post #15 of 33 Old 07-29-2017, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLonesome View Post
Applying 12vdc to the AC input of the diagram would turn the fan on high regardless of what the compressor is doing. The compressor is only enabled for short times and that is done via your ZJ's ATC module (I think).
My question was would this work in reverse. If I have the AC off and for whatever reason the high fan kicks on will it also kick on the AC ? Do I need a diode in there as well to stop this? But again if it's hot enough for high fan I likely have the ac on already.

So I ordered some supplies today: Main fuse (70amp) in a protective holder/heat sensor hose adapter/BMW heat sensor/diodes and a volvo controller. Still need an alternator and some indicator LED's
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