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Unread 03-26-2012, 12:45 PM   #106
augiedoggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V65Ozzie View Post
But can I use the 700's I got? Pulled them from a T-bird that was listed as a donor.
Currently hunting a 99 intake.
It will run... will it run better or use less gas... NO just the opposite those 24lb injectors are way overkill for a 5.2 or a 5.9 without a cutom tune to trim back the fuel levels.
They will be dumping too much fuel until the truck goes closed loop and even then they will likely be spraying too much fuel...
You need to have your engine on a scanner or wideband meter while running these and you'll see exactly what I mean...
or run them and find out the hardway what kind of damage running rich can do... hell anyone whos running them now just pull your 02 sensor and look at it... I bet its sooty and black like the inside of your cat converter now vs tan in color...
EDIT I should clarify
If you are running the 24's in the older 5.9 jeeps with the 39psi they may be ok... the 93-95 dodge 5.9l used 24 lb injectors before they switched to 778 ones because of better flow at lower fuel pressures... however if you jeep had 778 injectors the pcm is likely setup for the 22lb injectors (flowing at 23.2lbs at 49psi)... the 93-95 5.2 l used smaller injectors and different leaner pcm tables... here is a flow chart..Jeep may have possibly changed this a bit I dont know.

Dodge Engine Years Flow rate in lb/hr
5.2 Magnum 92-95 18.2
5.2 Magnum 96-01 23.2
5.9 Magnum 93-95 24.5
5.9 Magnum 96-01 23.2


Last edited by augiedoggy; 03-26-2012 at 03:46 PM..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 01:01 PM   #107
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Auggie... I think I am going to run the Ford Motorsport 19 lbs injectors as recommended by Sean from Hemifever...
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Unread 03-26-2012, 02:45 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickszj View Post
Auggie... I think I am going to run the Ford Motorsport 19 lbs injectors as recommended by Sean from Hemifever...
the yellow bosch generation 3 part # 0280155710 ones right? thats what I have here that the seller from ebay sent me to replace the 703's...I'm going to try them out as well... I believe they are found in mustangs.
the only downside I see to thse so far is there is no notches for clips to clip them to the fuel rail. Not that they dont work but you may want to double up the o rings using one in both lower positions so the injector can rest on the upper one to help hold it in position.
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Unread 03-26-2012, 02:59 PM   #109
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I think the ones I saw were 700's but yes, same idea...

Without the clip... will they go too far into the intake manifold bore? I dont know if there is a step there... that is the only direction they can go...
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Unread 03-26-2012, 03:40 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickszj View Post
I think the ones I saw were 700's but yes, same idea...

Without the clip... will they go too far into the intake manifold bore? I dont know if there is a step there... that is the only direction they can go...
thats why I suggest the extra oring but the 700 injectors may have the notches for the clips... 710's would be better since they flow closer to stock but either should work I imagine... and Sean should have a good idea what works.
the 700,s are rated at 204cc at 43.5lbs pressure and stock is 234cc at 43.5... the 710's are rates at 210cc @ 43.5 and 221 at 49psi

702's have the notches and are right between the 700 and 710's as far as flow...
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Unread 03-26-2012, 03:49 PM   #111
nickszj
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Actually - Sean believes the stock injectors are 19lbs... they just flow more a the higher pressures, that is why he recommends the 19lbs injectors.... its all so confusing..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #112
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It's been awhile since I did the read, but I think catsplat had a major writeup on the 703s and the 96-98 4.0 at 49 psi. It was a long thread but they flowed at an acceptable rate if I am not imagining it. I think it was recommended to go with a adjustable regulator or something to that nature but I'm not sure.
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Unread 03-26-2012, 04:02 PM   #113
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So you are you guys saying now the original write up is inaccurate and the 703's/715's are not foot for the 4.0, 5.2, and 5.9's we have? Everyone who installed them seemed to be pleased with the direct results, and if fuel was running rich wouldn't it trip the cel? I was planning to get 703's with one of the next paychecks; I'm confused with the conflicting information... I have a '94 5.2
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Unread 03-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Proph2010 View Post
So you are you guys saying now the original write up is inaccurate and the 703's/715's are not foot for the 4.0, 5.2, and 5.9's we have? Everyone who installed them seemed to be pleased with the direct results, and if fuel was running rich wouldn't it trip the cel? I was planning to get 703's with one of the next paychecks; I'm confused with the conflicting information... I have a '94 5.2
Dude... I am soooo confused too! My confusion has more to do with the 1998 5.9 and the 49 psi fuel pressure...

Based upon Auggiedogs experince, it doesnt sound like the 5.9 likes the 24lbs injectors... again, he has a dodge trucka dn a couple other guys have used them and seem to be ok... that is the confusing part..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #115
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This has been confirmed working with all 4.0 ZJs and some 5.2 ZJs.

I think if we can get definite pressure specs we can isolate the problem...ill do some searching
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Unread 03-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #116
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the 703's work good with the 4.0's...many use them... and they work good with the 95 and older 5.2l's what in question is the 96 up 5.2 and 5.9l which run at a higher 49psi which increases the flow.
The 703 injectors were way too rich for my 96 dodge with the 5.9 and I have headers/exhaust and a 50mm throttlebody... the 715's should work good for 95 and older 5.9's

Last edited by augiedoggy; 03-26-2012 at 06:35 PM..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by nickszj View Post
Dude... I am soooo confused too! My confusion has more to do with the 1998 5.9 and the 49 psi fuel pressure...

Based upon Auggiedogs experience, it doesnt sound like the 5.9 likes the 24lbs injectors... again, he has a dodge trucka dn a couple other guys have used them and seem to be ok... that is the confusing part..
I dont know of anyone thats used the blue 24lb injectors in a 96 or newer jeep with the higher fuel pressure.... at 49 psi its flowing at like 26lbs instead of the 23.2 from the factory..thats a big difference.

I only know of one person here with a 96 or newer 5.2/5.9 that used the 703 injectors and had good success with them..

I can varify the stock injectors flow at 23.2 lbs at the 49 psi and which would only be 22 lbs at 39psi.... this is why dodge used a bigger 24lb injector in the 92-95 5.9l rams and dakotas because they flowed slightly less than 39psi than the 24lbs rated at 43.5 psi...
older 5.2l needed less fuel and the pcm could adjust the flow of the injectors to a point... we know that a 5.2 liter pcm uses less fuel during warm up and that is one reason they recommend againt using a 5.2 pcm in a 5.9l engine setup.. it could run lean on warmup.

I bet if theres anyone reading this with a 95 or older jeep 5.9, If they looked they would find 24lb injectors from the factory..

Bottom line the 703 injectors should have worked for me since they would have still been 23lbs of flow at 49psi which is what we want... 23.x lbs of fuel flow rated at the pressure for our year... get it? not 26 lbs of flow which is what the guys on the dodge forum found out was pig rich and had to have the tune adjusted by Sean/sct for them.

I'm not bashing this thread at all its very useful although I bet if anyones running 715's in a 4.0 I bet they are running too rich also...I'd be worried about emissions testing and the other problems of running rich. I'm just tryindg to help and point out we are talking about three different size engines and two different fuel pressures as well as different fuel tables in the computers for each and multiple sized injectors that perform differently at different pressures.. We should blindly assume. I used scanning software that gave me real time 02 sensor and fuel trim readings ... those and the fact that my truck took forever to get to temp and dumped fuel in my gas and fouled my plugs up tells me the 703's I got rebuilt and flow matched did not work for my truck..

Last edited by augiedoggy; 03-26-2012 at 06:34 PM..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #118
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Disregard all quotes of this post, I corrected and added the information to the OP.
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Unread 03-26-2012, 08:49 PM   #119
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So I headed over to rockauto to check injector model numbers and did some math...found some interesting info:

Keep in mind the 703s flow at 21.5 lb/hr @ 39psi; and 24 lb/hr @49psi
The ford 715s flow at 24.4 lb/hr @ 39psi; and 25.9 lb/hr @ 49psi

5.2L V8s
1993-94(both GC and GW variants): Siemens 53007809; 22.7 lb/hr @ 39psi & 14.3 Ohm
1995: Siemens 53030262; 24.6lb/hr @ 39psi
1996-98 (including 5.9): Siemens 53030778; 23.2 lb/hr @ 49psi & 12 Ohm

And I also checked the 4.0s:
1993-95: Siemens 53030343; 22.3 lb/hr @ 39?psi & 14.3 Ohm
1996-98: Siemens 53030778; 23.7 lb/hr @ 49?psi & 12 Ohm

Not sure of pressure ratings on the 4.0s but found some threads with info on the 5.2 and 5.9 fuel pressure...seems like there were many different injector models used over the ZJs lifetime! This explains why you run rich with 96-98 V8s since the 703s flow almost 1psi less than stock. And while the injectors are rated to flow less, the computer will compensate and make the injectors flow more than their rating, so 93-95 would be unaffected. (right?)

This also shows why the 4.0 works just fine for 93-95, and for 96-98 the 703s only flow .3psi higher, and therefore don't flow that much richer.

Did a lot of math and figuring there...correct me if I'm mistaken somewhere
The ford 715s flow at 24.4 lb/hr @ ***43.5***psi; (23.1 @ 39psi and 25.9 lb/hr @ 49psi (way too high for any of the 96-01 engines in question at 49 but great for 93-95 at 39psi)

5.2L V8s
1993-94(both GC and GW variants): Siemens 53007809; 22.7 lb/hr @ 39psi & 14.3 Ohm (my search found these to be 19.4lb at 43.5 psi which is very odd? http://www.witchhunter.com/flowdatapix/s53007809.jpg are you sure this was the injector used? It would be flowing way less than any of the others..)

1995: Siemens 53030262; 24.6lb/hr @ 39psi I dont think this is right... injectors are usually shown rated at 43.5 (3bar), I bet these ratings are for that higher pressure which would make it flow 23.2 at 39 psi..
1996-98 (including 5.9): Siemens 53030778; 23.2 lb/hr @ 49psi & 12 Ohm

basically the pcm seems to be calculated for a flow rate of 23.1-23.2 on all years..the 703's will run 24.1 at 49psi in the 96-01 years which would be a bit rich on warmup and likely wont save you any mpg but they should work... ...I cant explain why they didnt for me. they were WAAY too rich. I gues 1.0 extra lb of fuel flow is more than we realize? Or I have some sort of fluke experience...

An adjustable fuel regulator should work great to dial it in but I dont really want to mess with running a return line and such...(I did buy the regulator)

Last edited by augiedoggy; 03-26-2012 at 09:12 PM..
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Unread 03-26-2012, 09:01 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedoggy

The ford 715s flow at 24.4 lb/hr @ ***43.5***psi; (23.1 @ 39psi and 25.9 lb/hr @ 49psi (way too high)

5.2L V8s
1993-94(both GC and GW variants): Siemens 53007809; 22.7 lb/hr @ 39psi & 14.3 Ohm
1995: Siemens 53030262; 24.6lb/hr @ 39psi I dont think this is right... injectors are usually shown rated at 43.5 I bet these ratings are for that higher pressure which would make it flow 23.2 at 39 psi..
1996-98 (including 5.9): Siemens 53030778; 23.2 lb/hr @ 49psi & 12 Ohm

basically the pcm seems to be calculated for a flow rate of 23.1-23.2 on all years..the 703's will run 24.1 at 49psi in the 96-01 years which would be a bit rich on warmup and likely wont save you any mpg but they should work... ...I cant explain why they didnt for me. they were WAAY too rich. I gues 1.0 extra lb of fuel flow is more than we realize? Or I have some sort of fluke experience...
All of them were rated at 43.5, I converted them according to the stock fuel pressures I found
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