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Unread 01-26-2014, 10:55 PM   #16
evan1395
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Bump?

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Unread 01-27-2014, 08:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1395 View Post
Im checking the dimensions between seal #8660 and #4857 and they are waaaaay off from eachother.

So here is Seal #8660
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1839142

And here is Seal #4857
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1118975
Believe you're just going to have to ignore what appears to be misinformation on these specs since as already said, most parts catalogs are wrong. I also went into the Timken site to see what current photos they have of these seals and it's a nightmare navigation site.

Personally I'd go directly to a parts store to buy these bearings/seals and it isn't going to cost very much more than online. When researching these seals I was going back/forth from Autozone/Advance right across the street from each other. Looked at Timken, National, Moog (later 2 are both Federal-Mogul), etc.. Autozone carries more Timken bearings/seals.

What it comes down to is go with the Timken 4857 seal only if it does not have the big maroon rubber seal with multiple ridges on the outside like in the photo I posted. If you can't find one w/o this type of rubber seal go with the 8660s and you should be fine. The other alternative it go to the dealer and go with Mopar.

BTW, what year/model are you working on since never saw it? The parts list for the 96 44 axle lists the outer bearing as a J8134586 and seal as 4856336 but these part numbers may be superseded with newer ones.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 10:52 AM   #18
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Its a 1996 5.2
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Unread 01-27-2014, 12:04 PM   #19
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OK, see you just changed your profile.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 01:25 PM   #20
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My apologies man. Had to switch all my info.
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Unread 01-27-2014, 05:11 PM   #21
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I used 4857's
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Unread 01-28-2014, 10:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1395 View Post
My apologies man. Had to switch all my info.
No problem and thanks for updating your profile. Noticed you still have a bunch of TJ parts listed under "Installed Products" you may need to change out/remove so it's less confusing what you actually have installed on your ZJ. (eg. 44a Non-LSD vs OEM LSD differential).
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Unread 01-28-2014, 11:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastSUV View Post
I used 4857's
I saw that in your real good write-up FastSUV which helped me a lot, thanks!

But I also noticed you used the National/Federal-Mogul 4857's which can be seen in the 3rd photo of your write-up instead of the Timken outer seals.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...-Wheel-Bearing

I just called the local Advance store and had them look at the National 4857 and it's stayed the same as the one in your photo along with the below link. Still has a metal lip on the outside edge and no rubber gasket on the smooth metal outer part with just a little blue gasket sealer on it now.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...rear+axle+seal

But then I called Autozone and had a parts guy inspect the Timken 4857. While it also has the outside metal lip it still has the big maroon rubber seal on the outside end with ridges on it. The parts guy said he had never seen anything like this big rubber seal wider than the metal itself. This is the Taiwan pos I had so much problems with and peened down the outside lip with a hammer but still could never get it to stay in tight.

And the photo of this Timken 4857 is wrong in the link because it doesn't even show the big rubber seal on the outside/end.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...er=199146_0_0_

I'd avoid the Timken 4857 altogether which can be seen in the middle of this photo I'll post again. The National 4857 is going to look like the OE one on the left I removed. Not sure about Mopar but bet it also looks the same as the old OE one or the National 4857.
1.-rear-wheel-seals-label-side-view-quarter-size-10-7-2012.jpg

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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 11:44 AM   #24
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ahhh, so then the Timken P/N represents a different actual seal...I'd love to cross-reference the OEM P/N in the Timken parts catalog and see what number comes up. But I guess you guys are also saying that the 8660S will work too?
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Unread 01-28-2014, 01:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastSUV View Post
ahhh, so then the Timken P/N represents a different actual seal...I'd love to cross-reference the OEM P/N in the Timken parts catalog and see what number comes up. But I guess you guys are also saying that the 8660S will work too?
Actually I think some mis-guided Timken engineer decided to try improve the Timken 4857 seal, while making it look fancy with the large rubber outside seal, and failed miserably! Even after peening down the outside lip on my 35c I was able to take a small screwdriver and put it between the lip/axle mating surface while popping it right out! No way I was going to use it and had to run to the parts stores. They were out of the National 4857 so went with the 8660S w/o the metal outside lip and no leaks after more than a year, knock on wood.

Interesting if you take the OE seal part number (4856336, item 7, Fig. 3-255) for the 44 axle from the 96 parts list and enter it in the below "Timken Seal Interchange and Cross Reference Guide" it references out to use the Timken 8660S (3rd up from far bottom right on actual page #150 which shows page 77 of 163 in my PDF view).

http://www.timken.com/en-us/products...ence_Guide.pdf

Wonder why it doesn't reference out to the Timken 4857, which is supposed to be like OE w/metal lip, and maybe they know they've designed/built a defective seal? When referencing the National 4857 the list says to use the Timken 4857 but as already shown they are not the same.

While the 8660S seems to work fine one thing I don't like about it is it sits further back in the axle housing which can accumulate more dirt, grit, ice, salt, etc.. I would have rather used a seal with a metal lip on the outside like the National 4857, which the part store was out of, or Mopar if it has a lip.

Not sure why, but the 35 axle seal number (5252499, Fig. 3-250, Item 7) from the 96 parts list couldn't be found on the Timken seal cross reference guide and maybe it's been superseded with another newer number?
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Unread 01-28-2014, 02:12 PM   #26
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So first choice (if available) is National #4857. If not then Timken #8660?
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Unread 01-28-2014, 05:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1395 View Post
So first choice (if available) is National #4857. If not then Timken #8660?
sounds like it, BUT I'd love to see what the OEM P/N crosses to in the National catalog?, then cross the Timken 8660S to a National and see what you get too...

All I know is that My 4857's have not leaked a drop since i did that writeup but I have not put a ton of miles on it since then either.
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Unread 01-28-2014, 10:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan1395 View Post
So first choice (if available) is National #4857. If not then Timken #8660?
Believe that's the route I'd take and either should work.

Also found the OE Chrysler 4856336 and the only place I could find a picture is Amazon. It has the outside lip, if photo's correct, but don't know if I'd pay about $21 each shipped from a 3rd party (Dallas Dodge Dealer). Believe I'd go to the local dealer before ordering this one online.

http://www.amazon.com/Chrysler-AXLE-...6336+axle+seal


Quote:
Originally Posted by FastSUV View Post
sounds like it, BUT I'd love to see what the OEM P/N crosses to in the National catalog?, then cross the Timken 8660S to a National and see what you get too...

All I know is that My 4857's have not leaked a drop since i did that writeup but I have not put a ton of miles on it since then either.
I don't think there is a National brand cross reference catalog since you're going through Federal-Mogul who owns National. In searching for the outer seal on their site for the 96 ZJ they say the 8660S is for the 35 while the 44-1HD takes the 4857. The 44a and 44-1HD must be different dimensions/types since they take different wheel bearings. Regardless, believe we've already found either the 4857 or 8660S will work/fit the 44a.

I have about 10K miles on the Timken 8660's with no leaks.
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