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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #16
Foundrydude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candymancan View Post
Yea the place that chart is from said my drivers rear toe was off.. Said it could be from a bent hub or something.. If they are suppose to adjust the front via the rear then why the **** arent they doing that !!!
Setting the front toe by referencing the back tires doesn't mean you can compensate for rear tires that are out of whack. And since the rear of a ZJ is not adjustable, I'd be looking real hard at what's happening with the rear axle now. Including checking the wheels for a smidge of runout/bend that's gonna skew the alignment rack setup

I'd also take it back and have them center the steering wheel. Any alignment tech that doesn't drive their own work is a retard.

FWIW I had something similar happen with the first car I ever clipped/stubbed. Darn wheel positions ended up in a parallelogram pattern when viewed from the top and no amount of adjustment ever cured the weird tire wear. It drove straight as an arrow but would scrub a tire edge smooth in 6k miles.

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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:23 PM   #17
Candymancan
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Can you explain what is out of whack at back by these numbers tho ?? Because I dont have any road noise from the rear or anything.. So i honestly dont know what the problem could be... Im going back tomorrow and im going to have them look at it once again... and your right im telling the idiot to drive the Jeep first and after so he can see what im talking about as far as my steering being off center so badly.. Because now that I think about it none of these guys actually test drove my Jeep. I know how to adjust it myself, by unclamping that bar up top and turn it to move the steering wheel, but wouldnt that knock the toe out ?

Im about to give up on merchants tho, only reason why i've been to 3 of them so many times is because i spent an extra $20 for a year free alignments... but they just cant seem to get this **** right..
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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:42 PM   #18
ratmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candymancan View Post
Its been on 3 different racks, about 5 times now... I went to another Merchants today, they checked the alingment and had the master mechanic look at it while on a lift, he poke and proded my joints with a pry bar, checked for loose parts he said my steering and suspension is in good shape...

The adjustments the prior shop was good, cept he said the toe was a little off.. it was 0.03, they adjusted it to 0.14. The steering alingment was way off all the way on the left of the red bar.. It was like 0.34 degree's or something like that.. He adjusted it to 0.02.. I took it home and all that did was make it worse... Now my steering is like a good 2-3 inches to the left and its hard to drive the Jeep and keep it center..

This is pissing me off..

Here is the alingment chart from the shop i went too the other day, prior to today.. All the specs are the same, cept the toe is now 0.14 instead of 0.03 and 0.10


like was alluded to earlier. there's a few things going on with the rear that aren't good. and aren't really fixable.
for one. your toe and camber are off compared to what you'd expect on a rear live axle. it should be within a few hundredths of zero for both. worn out wheel bearings or a bent axle or bent wheel accounts for that.
next.
i see the wheel base and track width are off side/side front/back
this isn't lifted? i think your fender bender was a little worse than you may have thought. you've got dog tracking and pushing and it seems the axles are out of whack where the standard alignment can't do anything with it.
your front right toe was absolutely horrible when you got there. normally that means worn out components or terrible thrust angle.
what is meant by adjusting the front by the rear is that the rear is supposed to be the fixed location on these. nothing is adjustable. even though they use that as the base line, if it's off you'll just keep getting terrible alignments that are "good by the numbers"

these mechanics are going by the machine, fixing this is beyond the scope of a standard 50$ alignment.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #19
tjkj2002
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Find out what is wrong with the rear end,something is bent and /or worn.Going to happen you got the mileage you have.While the thrust angle is not that bad it does show the rear axle is not centered under the Jeep.

The only way to change the SAI is by changing the camber and that will require adjustable balljoints to be installed in your Jeep.SAI is also better known as "scrub radius".


Oh and get that caster back down to the 6.5 degree mark,your running way to much caster.Five-six degrees would be much better no matter what the OE specs are.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
fixing this is beyond the scope of a standard 50$ alignment.
Agreed.

So many think those cheap alignments will fix everything when in most cases they will only reduce tire wear at best.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 04:50 PM   #21
Foundrydude
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The rear shouldn't have toe in or out. The wheels should be parallel.

Now if you have a bent wheel or axle flange, an alignment machine can detect that as toe in or out depending on how the bend is positioned. But to actually create the a toe change that's real, you're talking bent or improperly manufactured axle housing.

What you need is an alignment rack that's associated with a collision shop, not a high volume tie rod replacer shop. A collision alignment tech will be familiar with cases like yours. But if the axle's bent, not much he can do, all you're gonna get is a competent answer.

You might try string lining the back tires if you've got extra time on your hands. Otherwise it probably needs to go on somebody else's rack to confirm the rear diagnosis.

Might also be able to see unusual wear on the brakes or axle's bearing surface if it really is bent.

FWIW a single bad bushing in the rear suspension can create a shift under turning or braking that isn't detectable on a stationary alignment rack.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
like was alluded to earlier. there's a few things going on with the rear that aren't good. and aren't really fixable.
for one. your toe and camber are off compared to what you'd expect on a rear live axle. it should be within a few hundredths of zero for both. worn out wheel bearings or a bent axle or bent wheel accounts for that.
next.
i see the wheel base and track width are off side/side front/back
this isn't lifted? i think your fender bender was a little worse than you may have thought. you've got dog tracking and pushing and it seems the axles are out of whack where the standard alignment can't do anything with it.
your front right toe was absolutely horrible when you got there. normally that means worn out components or terrible thrust angle.
what is meant by adjusting the front by the rear is that the rear is supposed to be the fixed location on these. nothing is adjustable. even though they use that as the base line, if it's off you'll just keep getting terrible alignments that are "good by the numbers"

these mechanics are going by the machine, fixing this is beyond the scope of a standard 50$ alignment.



Well, The fender bender I was in was earlier this year.. I got hit on the front right corner it actually broke a wheel stud off on that side which I had to replace... Thats side that is wearing like this... The thing about that tho is my outer tire wear was happening way before that accident.. So i dunno.. If my rear axle is messed up, then I dunno what to do.. I cant afford to fix that so its either just keep driving it like this.. and replace my tires every 20-30k miles or fix it.. : /

To answer your question about being lifted. No it isnt lifted.. I measure 18 inches from center of the rim to the fender on both sides of the front, and 18 1/2 on both sides of the rear. I think it was closer to 19 when I had the smaller tires on

This is a pic of the dmg to my front, but like I said my wearing on the outside tires was before this accident.. You can look at my tire and sorta see that its nearly bald

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMAG0273.jpg

So what should I do then ? Should I go to a body shop and have them check my body to see if its ok ? Would they be able to check the rear axle and everything your talking about to see what the hell is going on ? I can see it now this is going to cost houndreds to diagnose at a body shop.. What is string linging the back tires ? Can you explain ? I'll go on google and look it up for now..
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:09 PM   #23
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Well being that 235/75R15 tires are insanly cheap I'd personally just drive it and replace tires every 30k.Try rotating then sooner like at 2000-3000 miles(I do not know how often you rotate now),and get a matching spare and do a 5 tire rotation,that will make the tire last alot longer also.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:17 PM   #24
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I wouldnt call $620 insainly cheap lol but yea. When I first noticed the unusuall tire wear on my 5.9 I started to rotate them every oil change.. So every 3-4k miles.. Maybe I should change that to every 2k lol.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:19 PM   #25
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I wouldnt call $620 insainly cheap lol but yea. When I first noticed the unusuall tire wear on my 5.9 I started to rotate them every oil change.. So every 3-4k miles.. Maybe I should change that to every 2k lol.
That's half of what I pay for tires every 25k-30k.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #26
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Rotate the heck out of em and when the outer edges are down to 25% tread.....have the tires flipped on the rims so you can work the other edge. You wouldn't be the first to do this.

If this was a hot street car I'd tell ya to increase rear tire wear to match, but you're kinda hosed in that regard
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #27
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Well you gatta understand Im not lifted and im not rich so $600 for tires is a lot for me.... My tires should be lasting at least 40k miles... instead the Firestone Destination LE lasted barely 20k My moms 4.0 her tires were some solus Khumo's they lasted for 6 years.. or around 70k miles.. Think bout it... 20k on a 60k mile rated firestone tire on my 5.9.. Vs 70k on her Khumo tires lol.. Thats really bad.

As for flipping the tires on the rims to the other side... LOLOL you know i told the mechanic i wanted to do that to wear the otherside more to keep it sorta even you know ? He told me not to do it as it would cause handling problems... Well i dont see how it could cause anyworse handeling problems then what I had lol.. With the outer egde of the tire not touching the road anymore in the rear because they are so worn i lose traction and spin my tires in the rain.. and with them being worn in the front like they were when i turn i gatta be carefull because i lose traction... If I flipped the tires like you mentioned i dont think i woulda had that problem tho...

So yea I'll probly do that then.. Rotate em every 2-3k miles.. Then keep a tire depth gauge on me and keep and eye on the tread depth and if the outside gets too low ill just flip the tires around on the rims. Im sure if I did that then Id get another 10k outa em
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #28
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I'm having the same issues....alignment is good, no pulling issues, stock suspension, but the outside of the front tires are wearing hella fast. . I have the firestone destination le's on there like you had. I know the vc isn't my issue..my jeep has the 242 tc so no vc.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:41 PM   #29
ratmonkey
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a hit hard enough to break a stud definitely did some axle damage. i think it's showing up in that absolutely terrible toe you had. i bet the toe is off again the at the next shop.
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Unread 11-12-2012, 05:45 PM   #30
Foundrydude
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Flipping the tires on the rims won't mess things up any more than rotating tires will mess things up.

Think about it.

I'm with Rat on the hit. You may have a tweaked spindle or axle housing and probably a smidge of bend on a trailing arm tab. A dana 30 isn't particularly beefy. Could also have something going on with a ball joint that's not detectable without disassembly.

You run into that kind of problem dealing with hits. Sometimes you just gotta take the leap of faith to tear it apart to know.

But then again you said it was wearing funny before the hit.

Or you could just rotate the tires.

I'd rotate
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