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Unread 03-04-2014, 08:01 PM   #1
Adamzero
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Brake Issues Question

I have a 93 zj.
MC is only about a year old, been losing brake fluid for a few days now at a steady rate, CANNOT find a leak, not on the inside under the pedal nor anywhere outside.

Then today driving home, pretty much lost all brakes and when I got out no fluid was like wtf, so I threw some fluid in figured I could get into the garage at least (only a block away) and as soon as I hit the brakes a massive amount of smoke came poring out, then no fluid again. Now, I've looked everywhere on this jeep and cannot see a leak. was wondering if anyone has any ideas or input to send me in the right direction.

Thanks in advanced.

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Unread 03-04-2014, 08:10 PM   #2
zj97ltd
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Where was the smoke coming from? Under hood, a wheel?
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Unread 03-04-2014, 08:19 PM   #3
Adamzero
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Not entirely sure, mostly towards the rear, but that could have been because I was moving. However I swore it was coming out of my exhaust at one point the jeep started to sputter some. I know how unlikely that it, thats why it was odd.
anyone know if the break booster is directly tired into the air intake system?
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Unread 03-04-2014, 09:21 PM   #4
Uniblurb
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Definitely, there's a large vacuum hose connected from the brake booster to the intake on the 4.0. Bet if you loosen the MC you'll find the piston seal is leaking into the brake booster, pulling the brake fluid into the intake, and burning it right through the engine. Sounds like you have a bum MC where the seal has failed and most likely you're going to need another one.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 03-04-2014, 10:21 PM   #5
Adamzero
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well after some serious research and hunt down. I've decided to just replace both, the mc and booster. about 160 and thats with the core, so about 130.
suckssss. any advice on tear down and rebuild? or any known threads?
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Unread 03-05-2014, 02:53 AM   #6
Uniblurb
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Any particular reason you're replacing the brake booster too? I would think if it was tight enough to hold break fluid w/o it leaking out it would be air/vacuum tight too. Are you going with a new or re-manufactured MC? I'd suggest a new Cardone MC and know most all brake boosters for your 93 are rebuilt.

Not sure if you have ABS but as soon as you take off each line on the MC plug them with a rubber cap or piece of hose with a bolt in it. You shouldn't get any air in the ABS since it won't be activated while you're doing the brake work.

Most Cardone MC's come with a couple plastic bleeder tubes for putting in the reservoir with it full. The below procedure is for bench bleeding the MC. Since you have 2 caps/reservoir sections put each bleeder tube in the bottom of one each. Once the air's out pull the tubes out and keep them higher than the MC and put the caps back on. Try to disconnect the bleeder tubes/connect the lines quickly. Then you'll need to bleed all the calipers starting with the furthest one away.

If you replace the brake booster believe you just disconnect the 4 nuts on the inside firewall after disconnecting the pin from the brake pedal linkage. Good luck.
master-cylinder-bench-bleeding-2004-wj-fsm-p.-5-23.jpg

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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.

Last edited by Uniblurb; 03-05-2014 at 03:06 AM.. Reason: Attaching diagram
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Unread 03-05-2014, 11:37 AM   #7
johns1mj
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Brake fluid will ruin your booster.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #8
Adamzero
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I decided to replace the booster as well, because after about an hour of fiddling with the whole system I could hear a squeaky sound coming from the peddle, my only assumption was that fluid had gotten into the booster, and sucked into the engine, explaining the massive amount of smoke. I most defiantly appreciate that diagram UNI, thats a great idea. I believe I ordered the remanned, I'll update once I go pick it up. I'm defiantly going to have a shop rebleed the system once I'm done. as a just in case and theres a pretty good deal down the road from me. about 50 bucks for a full bleed.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 12:18 PM   #9
jeepjeepster
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Funny squeaking sound... SQUIRREL!
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Unread 03-05-2014, 01:49 PM   #10
Uniblurb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamzero View Post
I decided to replace the booster as well, because after about an hour of fiddling with the whole system I could hear a squeaky sound coming from the peddle, my only assumption was that fluid had gotten into the booster, and sucked into the engine, explaining the massive amount of smoke. I most defiantly appreciate that diagram UNI, thats a great idea. I believe I ordered the remanned, I'll update once I go pick it up. I'm defiantly going to have a shop rebleed the system once I'm done. as a just in case and theres a pretty good deal down the road from me. about 50 bucks for a full bleed.
YW for the diagram Adam and good luck! Here's a couple tips. When you pickup your reman MC if it comes with the plastic bleeder fittings w/clear plastic tubes attached check to make sure they fit the ports on the MC. I ran into a problem where one fit but the other didn't because they were 2 different size ports. You can always buy a correct fitting with short brake line to attached to bend into the bottom of the reservoir if it comes with one which doesn't fit. Sometimes you can just buy an adapter fitting.

If the MC still doesn't want to pump up it may have an air lock. You can again do a type of bench bleed while still attached to the booster using the brake pedal. Again you'll need to switch lines over as in the diagram.

You'd better start spraying down the bleeders on all calipers now with a rust cutter/PB because they tend to rust/seize. Break a bleeder screw off and you're most likely to be getting another rebuilt caliper since not that easy to remove a broken one.

Make sure you end up with 2 seals/gaskets for MC and booster. There should be one between booster and the dash (firewall) while the other is between the booster & MC.

I've always bled my own brakes but up to you if you want to take it to a shop. Probably the best investment I made last year was to buy the below Motive power bleeder which took the hammer/bit**'in wife out of the equation!

http://www.amazon.com/Motive-Product...+brake+bleeder

While this fits late model Chrysler's have a feeling it wouldn't fit yours since a 93 has 2 caps instead of 1 on the reservoir.
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-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 04:43 PM   #11
dusterdude
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Bet you blew a hose
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Unread 03-05-2014, 05:13 PM   #12
jeepyard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusterdude View Post
Bet you blew a hose
That's what it sounds like to me too and its spraying fluid on the exhaust and causing it to smoke when you press the brake pedal. I would look at the rear brake hose and see if it is busted.
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Unread 03-05-2014, 05:28 PM   #13
dusterdude
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Yea,when you lose fluid that fast,most times its a hose
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Unread 03-05-2014, 06:48 PM   #14
Uniblurb
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Surely if he blew a hose the fluid would spray everywhere so you'd see it dripping. I remember last year in driving my 93 XJ where a squirrel had taken a bite out of front/right hose and it blew while driving through town. Luckily it's a 5-speed where I could downshift to limp home and use my working ebrake for stopping. But my wheel well and everything around it looked like someone had thrown a bucket of brake fluid on it.

It's steel line on the rear all the way to the calipers. But there's a hose assembly attached to the left/top rear axle which functions as a junction block for left/right steel lines while the hollow bolt is an axle breather. I'd also think if this hose/line blew there'd be fluid everywhere but may be worth checking.
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96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 93 4.0 XJ (spare), 96 4.0 XJ (son's)

-Stalling ZJ? 12 things to check before replacing a sensor; the Dirty Dozen
-Crankshaft position sensor multimeter test. & video of testing.
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Unread 03-06-2014, 02:09 AM   #15
Adamzero
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defiantly wasn't a hose, I got that booster off and fluid just poured out of it. I'm gonna have a shop bleed the brakes with the 4 wheel machine. I got them to where they are working good enough to get it there haha. we shall see tomorrow if anything else is wrong.
booster pump and mc changed together, all done in about 2.5 hours because I accidentally broke a brake line and had to go back to the store rebind one and come back. which added a good 45 minutes. haven't bleed it completely but its enough for tonight. Thanks for all the input I really do appreciate it.

only thing I've noticed is now there is a air leak somewhere as the booster is filling back up which almost chokes the jeep out, but I'm sure thats a hose. Hopefully. I'll keep everyone posted.

Also thanks uni, been a big help.
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