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Unread 11-17-2013, 11:09 PM   #31
StPaul59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCrabtree View Post
Mixing those additive packages can cause all kinds of different ****. Mainly your seals go bad faster. I'm not a scientist so I can't sit here and say "if you mix A with B your oil will deteriorate blah blah blah" but it is a well known fact that mixing different oils MAY cause premature engine damage.
On my first 98, I used nothing but Mobil 1 syn and my seals went to hell and high water leaking everywhere until I went to conventional oil.

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Unread 11-18-2013, 01:34 AM   #32
JohnCrabtree
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Originally Posted by StPaul59 View Post
On my first 98, I used nothing but Mobil 1 syn and my seals went to hell and high water leaking everywhere until I went to conventional oil.
Most of the time when people have that issue it is because the additives in synthetic oil is different than conventional, synthetic's cleansers tend to be stronger. What normally happens is you had some kind of sludge or carbon deposits keeping your seals from leaking and those stronger cleansers, well, they clean!
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Unread 11-18-2013, 02:10 AM   #33
shaban
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What I've heard is that its best not to use any agressive sludge cleaner products. Some piece of gunk may fall off and get stuck, say, in one of crankshaft bearing oil passages. I'd just keep changing the oil more frequently.
Same refers to synthetic oils - they've got way more detergents.
I've heard stories of guys changing over and having
rear main seal leak on them due to having all the crap that held the seal, dissolve or wash out.
Maybe the seal was on the way out anyway, but synthetic oil had definitely accelerated that
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Unread 11-18-2013, 06:10 AM   #34
jsadler
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The best stuff to put in your crankcase is oil and the best way to clean something out of your engine is to open it up and clean it.




My 2cents on the oil causing damage debate. I like beer too!
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Unread 11-18-2013, 02:57 PM   #35
StPaul59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCrabtree View Post
Most of the time when people have that issue it is because the additives in synthetic oil is different than conventional, synthetic's cleansers tend to be stronger. What normally happens is you had some kind of sludge or carbon deposits keeping your seals from leaking and those stronger cleansers, well, they clean!
Nope, no sludge in that motor. I used M1 after I had a couple thousand miles on it. I drove that Jeep pretty hard also .
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Unread 11-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #36
BigJohn96ZJ
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Anyone else have the black hard spot on the tip of the dipstick? My guess is there is sludge in my oil pan.
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:21 PM   #37
JohnCrabtree
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Originally Posted by StPaul59 View Post
Nope, no sludge in that motor. I used M1 after I had a couple thousand miles on it. I drove that Jeep pretty hard also .


Your jeep is finicky.
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:24 PM   #38
StPaul59
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Your jeep is finicky.
Arent they all??
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:33 PM   #39
JohnCrabtree
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I forgot about this the other day. Had a convo today at school about this exact topic.

ATF works well, ATF is heavy on cleansers. My recommendation for this treatment would be 4 qts of cheapo oil, 1 qt of ATF. Drive it for a little bit (maybe 50-100 miles) and do an oil change with good oil.

The you have your seafoam and similar treatments. Just run those the way they say to run it (I think seafoam says half the can in the tank, 1/4 in the vacuum brake booster line and 1/4 into the oil fill).

You also could run synthetic oil for the increased cleansers. If you want to do this and want it super clean, I would recommend doing an oil change every 1,000 miles with a high quality synthetic oil until the sludge is gone.

Of course you also have your motor flushes.

If you're doing this, clean your throttle body while you're at it (as I said earlier). If you're going to clean your TB, take it off. If you clean it with the TB on, you're just getting all that gunk off of your TB and into your engine (It makes me laugh when people do this). I would also run some concentrated fuel system cleaner. Chevron makes one (Techron, of course) that is highly concentrated (higher than their normal fuel). You could also simply run seafoam in your fuel.

If it is really THAT bad, I would also pull your oil pan off and clean the sludge out of that and change the filter on the pickup line (if our's has one? I haven't had my jeep's oil pan off).


Be prepared for high oil consumption after a good cleaning.
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:36 PM   #40
whitegoat
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I heard and read to drain a quart of oil out and put a quart of transmission fluid in, (because trans fluid has a higher detergent content) then drive it at operating temps for a little bit then drain, this is what I did on my 99 Cherokee I bought a year ago with 190k on it.....still running strong with no issues and no leaks
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #41
tjkj2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCrabtree View Post
Most of the time when people have that issue it is because the additives in synthetic oil is different than conventional, synthetic's cleansers tend to be stronger. What normally happens is you had some kind of sludge or carbon deposits keeping your seals from leaking and those stronger cleansers, well, they clean!
95% of your "synthetic" oils on the market are just highly refined conventional oil(that is fact,Mobil 1 is one example,Mobile 1 Extended Performance is a true synthetic oil though).If the oil you use is SM certified and switch to any other SM certified oil regardless of who makes it the additive package is within a few PPM the same.Now high mileage oils have extra additives to help soften seals but in no way will effect anything when it comes to mixing oils of different brands.

Now mixing different certified oils can lead to issues like going to a SL rated oil when your engine requires SM rated oil and vice-versa.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 01:25 AM   #42
JohnCrabtree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkj2002
95% of your "synthetic" oils on the market are just highly refined conventional oil(that is fact,Mobil 1 is one example,Mobile 1 Extended Performance is a true synthetic oil though).If the oil you use is SM certified and switch to any other SM certified oil regardless of who makes it the additive package is within a few PPM the same.Now high mileage oils have extra additives to help soften seals but in no way will effect anything when it comes to mixing oils of different brands. Now mixing different certified oils can lead to issues like going to a SL rated oil when your engine requires SM rated oil and vice-versa.
It's not about the PPM of the additive package, it is what additives make up the additive package.

I'm done with this debate. Feel free to get the last word in but I won't respond.

I was taught at my VERY highly respected trade school that mixing additive packages (by mixing oils) can cause premature engine wear. Frankly, I'm more inclined to listen to them than someone who's knowledge of the topic could have come from a quick google search or wikipedia. No offense intended to you or anyone else who disagrees with me.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 01:29 AM   #43
JohnCrabtree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitegoat
I heard and read to drain a quart of oil out and put a quart of transmission fluid in, (because trans fluid has a higher detergent content) then drive it at operating temps for a little bit then drain, this is what I did on my 99 Cherokee I bought a year ago with 190k on it.....still running strong with no issues and no leaks
This works the same as draining all the fluid and doing a 4 qts oil/1 qt ATF. It can be tricky draining only 1 qt though. Just seems easier to drain and throw in some cheapo store brand oil for a few miles with the ATF.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 05:15 AM   #44
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new motor. your F***ed
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Unread 11-19-2013, 07:29 AM   #45
HighLonesome
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new motor. your F***ed
truth, what I had to do...
if the sludge is real bad and you try to break it up, it can go everywhere blocking passages, returns, etc

5.2 -> 5.9 is how I coped
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