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Unread 08-31-2010, 04:48 PM   #1
twohawks
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This '98 ZJ 5.2 w/TP... what's it got AND what do you think?

Hi All,
Okay... my head is about to split open from researching (only so much you can learn without hands on), so while I continue the quest I gotta start asking....

Right now I am looking at a '98 ZJ 5.2L with 160K miles on it. Tow Package, Factory skids, says it has factory lift too. Supposedly clean. AutoCheck not too bad. Going to see it tomorrow. By pics and talks with owner I suspect its in better than fair shape, or at least fair shape. I will be taking it into the dealer for a full inspection if it passes my personal initial one.
I am hoping they will be able to tell me the condition of the VC as well as other stuff.

At the end is the build sheet info.

First... my general profile and then
Second... My Questions...
Then the build sheet.

=======================
A) Profile: I live in the high Sierra's at about 7700 ft. Tons of snow. I do a little towing (small boats, motorcycles, tent camper), and for working I load (my FSJ) up with lots of tools and parts, so I am always carrying a load.
I do a little off-road here and there (hunting, camping, etc).
I have never gotten stuck in my FSJs (oh yeah, I got two... an '85 and an '89 -- both owned about ten years, love the hell out of 'em), and they have taken me some very cool way-off the beaten path places ;^)
But those are getting old, and eat gas like candy.

Okay, so you got a simple bead on my needs...
I am considering a Grand Cherokee or perhaps a Chevy Tahoe...

=======================
B) Questions:

1) - Does this thing have Limited slip or not? Is that only on the rear?

2) - If its got LSD... what if I get one rear and one front wheels in the air...will the touching ones spin (for getting me 'out')?
(that's what lsd can do for you, isn't it?)
{Of course, when I get there I will inspect for the bolt tag and spin test, but I would think the build sheet shows it, I just don't know how to tell ;^}
- I would think LSD does not exist on the front, but have to ask.

3) How concerned should I be over the age/condition of the VC (or anything else on your mind)?
I am thinking, if the VC fails maybe I would change to a different Transfer system (Selec Trac?) ...but I gotta lot of learning to do before I can begin thinking+talking about that. But I figure might be good to mention.

4) I am concerned about losing storage space. That spare in the back gives me pause, as I would already be downsizing from the FSJ [will be selling one of 'em) ...hence the consideration for the Chevy Tahoe or similar. Ideas on that? Put it on the Roof?

5) Gander a value on this package ...as listed below and considering fair shape. Oh, and he said it has a factory lift, but I do not see it on the sheet, and I need to sort out how to tell ;^)


Okay, that's a start.
Here's the poop...

=======================
C. Build Sheet for this ZJ

*CL Leather Trimmed Bucket Seats
-C3 Mist Gray
ADLP Skid Plate Group
AFFP Luxury Group
AHX Trailer Tow Group IV
APAS Monotone Paint
ARDP Radio Cass/CD/Amp,11 Infinity Spkr
ARPP Limited Decor Group
AWM International Suspension Group
A31P 5.2L Eng(ELF)/4Spd A/T 44RE(DGW)
BAZP 136 Amp Alternator
BCES 600 Amp Maintenance Free Battery
BRGS Anti-Lock 4-Wheel-Disc Brakes
CACS Low Back Bucket Seats
CFNS Rear 60/40 Folding Seat
CGWS Next Generation Front Air Bags**
CKDS Floor Carpet
CKNS Cargo Compartment Carpet
CKRS Cargo Net
CKTS Cargo Tie Down Loops
CLES Front & Rear Floor Mats
CSAS Spare Tire Cover
CSCS Cargo Compartment Cover
CSRS Passenger Assist Handles
CUDP Mini Overhead Console
CUFS Full Length Floor Console
CXHP Steering Column Locking Slip Collar
DGB All 4-Speed Automatic Transmissions
DGWS 4-Spd. Automatic 4RE Transmission
DHAS Lock-Up Torque Converter
DHRP Single Speed On Demand Transfer Case
DJJS Dana 30/186MM Front Axle
DMEP 3.73 Rear Axle Ratio
DRKP Dana 44/226MM Rear Axle
EAAC All Engines
ELF 5.2L V8 MPI Engine
GBBS Tinted Windshield Glass
GCBS Front Door Tinted Glass
GEGP Deep Tint Sunscreen Glass
GEPS Flipper Liftgate Glass
GFAS Rear Window Defroster
GNCS Sun Visors w/Illum Vanity Mirrors
GNKP Rear View Auto Dim Mirror
GR3P Left Power Fold-Away Mirror
GS3P Right Power Fold-Away Mirror
GT3P Power Mirrors, Fold-Away
GVBC All Vehicles W/Power Mirrors
GWAP Power Sunroof
GXMS Remote Keyless Entry
HABP Air Conditioning w/Auto Temp Control
HGAS Hood Insulation
HGDS Deluxe Insulation Group
JAYS Instrument Cluster w/Tach
JCBS 120 MPH Primary Speedometer
JHAS Var Intermittent Windshield Wipers
JHBS Rear Window Wiper/Washer
JJAS Cigar Lighter
JJBS Dual Note Electric Horns
JKAS Locking Glove Box
JPAS Power Windows
JPBS Power Locks
JPMP Heated Front Seats
KTES STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
K4NS STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
LACS Illuminated Entry
LAGS Warning Chime
LAZP Vehicle Information Center
LBBS Courtesy Lamps
LBCS Glove Box Lamp
LBDS Ash Tray Lamp
LCBP Door Courtesy Lamps
LDAS Underhood Lamp
LDBS Cargo Compartment Lamp
LETP Traveler/Mini Trip Computer
LEWP Radio/Driver Seat/Mirrors Memory
LMGP Automatic Headlamps
LNJP Fog Lamps
LPSS CHMSL Lamp
LSAP Security Alarm
MDAP Front License Plate Bracket
MFTP Body Color Grille
MHAS Black Windshield Moldings
MWGS Roof Rack
NAE California Emissions
NF5S 23 Gallon Fuel Tank
NHMS Speed Control
NMCP Heavy Duty Engine Cooling
PW1 Stone White Clear Coat
QW1S Stone White C/C
RAAC All Radio Equipped Vehicles
RAZP AM/FM Cassette Compact Disc Radio
RCGP 6 Speakers
RDDS Fixed Long Mast Antenna
SBAS Power Rack and Pinion Steering
SCLP Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel
SDUP Heavy Duty Suspension w/Gas Shocks
SUAS Tilt Steering Column
TBBP Full Size Spare Tire
TBLS Inside Mounted Spare Tire
TRDP P225/70R16 All Season Tires
TZAS Goodyear Brand Tires
WDMP 16X7.0 Lux Alum Gold Wheels
WKBP Matching Spare Wheel
WLZC All Aluminum Wheels
XEAP Tow Hooks
XEEP Fuel Tank Skid Plate Shield
XEFP Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield
XEUP Front Suspension Skid Plate
XGDP Universal Garage Door Opener
YAAS Build To U.S. Mkt. Specifications
YGGA 9 Additional Gallons of Gas
ZGNP Spring - Left Front
ZJVP Spring - Left Rear
ZVNP Spring - Right Front
ZXVP Spring


Last edited by twohawks; 08-31-2010 at 09:26 PM.. Reason: numbering corrected
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Unread 08-31-2010, 04:49 PM   #2
twohawks
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Not a "built not bought" kinda guy either... please be gentle ;^)

Oh yeah... that's a Limited.

Last edited by twohawks; 08-31-2010 at 09:25 PM.. Reason: fixed numbering above
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Unread 08-31-2010, 09:48 PM   #3
freakinheep89
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LSD was an option, and available on the rear only. i dont see it on the build sheet but look at the rear axle, there will be a metal tag hanging on one of the cover bolts. if its there its LSD, if not, then no.

If the VC in the case is bad, just swap in a 242

get a nice roof basket with a spare tire carrier

my estimate of value on a 98 5.2 w 160k, assuming the VC has not been rebuilt ~ $3000 at most
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[SIZE="1"][B]95 ZJ 5.2[/B]- D30/XJ shafts/D35 Yukon alloys,249, 2"BB, 30x9.5"Wildcat EXT,lots of motor mods, rancho shocks & stabilizer.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=slayercr23;12630497]How would i go about Stroking it?[/QUOTE]
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Unread 09-01-2010, 12:05 AM   #4
twohawks
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system posted this twice?!

Last edited by twohawks; 09-01-2010 at 12:14 AM.. Reason: deleted, see next
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Unread 09-01-2010, 12:13 AM   #5
twohawks
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Thanks for the feedback, freakinheep89.
Yeah, I thought it may be worth about 3k. I wondered if it may be worth less if the VC is on its last legs, or if that's simply the value as is regardless.

Can/will the dealership inspection be able to provide any insight on the VC health?
sorry, ignore that... you said "assuming the VC has not been rebuilt" ...I am just too brain dead from reading all I can `8^P

Yeah, I didn't know if the inclusion of the LSD would be masked in the build sheet (as something I don't understand), or simply is not there... and I am afraid that if the option was ordered it should appear on the sheet ....do you know for sure that it either "would" or "wouldn't necessarily" be listed ? and/or anyone else?)

What I am really wondering is if, being mechanically inclined but lacking experience, ...if I could actually do a 242 swap presuming to follow whatever "instructions" I could get my hands on ...without unwittingly fubar-ing the poor beast?

I rebuilt a VW in my younger days...extremely no comparison there, lol.
Actually, I had a '67 Dodge Dart (Chrysler ;^) I used to work on that a bit. I swapped out the engine and tranny (267 V8 upgraded to a 318 pulled from a Plymouth Fury III), did the heads and exhaust (on both engines), put dualies on it, gave it a little lift (plus an extra leaf on each spring) and migrated the wheels from 13" to 14". I was second owner... had that for over 30 years. Finally sold it to a "proper mopar enthusiast" as I had been neglecting it during its later years (shameful).

Anyway, I appreciate your comments. Keep 'em coming. Going out there to see it tomorrow.

Cheers,
RD / TwoHawks

Last edited by twohawks; 09-01-2010 at 01:24 AM.. Reason: see "sorry" per vc
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Unread 09-01-2010, 12:26 AM   #6
twohawks
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I am just reading a little about wheels... I am worried if those 16x7's have to go. How well might those sell if I wanted to swap 'em out (for, like, 8 or 9 in width wheels) ? Maybe I'm talking crap... I need to read up it, but may be worth tossing out here.
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Unread 09-01-2010, 01:44 AM   #7
Smokey1r
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If you have the stealership inspect it make certain to also have them inspect all the control arms for both rear and front axles for worn out bushings, if you don't plan on lifting it after a potential purchase. them bushings can be a pain in the butt handling wise like the ones on my friends 97 GC Laredo have become!!!

Oh and the build sheet you posted is 95% identical to my friends!! lol
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Unread 09-01-2010, 11:47 AM   #8
twohawks
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Cool. Thanks Smokey.
I am heading out there now ;^)
Cheers.
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Unread 09-01-2010, 12:17 PM   #9
sebian
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I didn't see anything in there to indicate a "factory lift". Though you might be looking at an ORVIS edition, which does come with about a 1" lift comapred to the standard Limited and Laredo.

For the spare tire, you could always mount a swing out arm on the back of the Jeep. I think that would look sexier than mounting it on the roof. But that is just me.
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Unread 09-01-2010, 01:05 PM   #10
SnowLeopard
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For the uses you describe I'd say an Overland with the HO 4.7 and QuadraDrive would be a better choice. It'll cost more, but it has three LSD's, one in the front diff, the transfer case is in essence an LSD, and the rear diff. It also comes with, depending on the year, a slightly higher ground clearance, skids, and tow hooks. It's just worth mentioning.
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Unread 09-01-2010, 01:29 PM   #11
freakinheep89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twohawks View Post
Thanks for the feedback, freakinheep89.
Yeah, I thought it may be worth about 3k. I wondered if it may be worth less if the VC is on its last legs, or if that's simply the value as is regardless.

Can/will the dealership inspection be able to provide any insight on the VC health?
sorry, ignore that... you said "assuming the VC has not been rebuilt" ...I am just too brain dead from reading all I can `8^P

Yeah, I didn't know if the inclusion of the LSD would be masked in the build sheet (as something I don't understand), or simply is not there... and I am afraid that if the option was ordered it should appear on the sheet ....do you know for sure that it either "would" or "wouldn't necessarily" be listed ? and/or anyone else?)

What I am really wondering is if, being mechanically inclined but lacking experience, ...if I could actually do a 242 swap presuming to follow whatever "instructions" I could get my hands on ...without unwittingly fubar-ing the poor beast?

I rebuilt a VW in my younger days...extremely no comparison there, lol.
Actually, I had a '67 Dodge Dart (Chrysler ;^) I used to work on that a bit. I swapped out the engine and tranny (267 V8 upgraded to a 318 pulled from a Plymouth Fury III), did the heads and exhaust (on both engines), put dualies on it, gave it a little lift (plus an extra leaf on each spring) and migrated the wheels from 13" to 14". I was second owner... had that for over 30 years. Finally sold it to a "proper mopar enthusiast" as I had been neglecting it during its later years (shameful).

Anyway, I appreciate your comments. Keep 'em coming. Going out there to see it tomorrow.

Cheers,
RD / TwoHawks
to see if the VC is good, go do figure 8's in a dry pavement parking lot and listen for whirring or clunking(both bad).

the 242 swap is very straightforward and there are many good write ups on here. LSD should be on the build sheet, its on my friend's.

the "factory lift" is probably the Up Country package, it should also be on the sheet

as Snowleopard said, if you want something a little larger inside, a WJ Overland would be a nice choice but a good overland will run you around $7k at least
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TJ-
[SIZE="1"][B]95 ZJ 5.2[/B]- D30/XJ shafts/D35 Yukon alloys,249, 2"BB, 30x9.5"Wildcat EXT,lots of motor mods, rancho shocks & stabilizer.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=slayercr23;12630497]How would i go about Stroking it?[/QUOTE]
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Unread 09-09-2010, 08:56 PM   #12
twohawks
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Well hell... or should I say, shopper's hell...

Not been ignoring the thread here, just been working (my job) and then dealing with "all sorts" inbetween...

One of the factors weighing in my purchase ability has to do with investing in some repairs to one of my FSJ's, and I ran into a little trouble with a reticent mechanic that burned up some of my precious time.

Anymonday, thought I'd better come back and report, etc...

@SnowLeopard: First of all... thank you, SnowLeopard, for the suggestion on the Overland, indeed, it was worth mentioning, if for nothing else than comparing potential options I am weighing for other trims. I don't see me getting into one anytime soon considering my budget right now, but it raised my awareness a little, and I know I need to go look at a live one to compare the inside space. It may well be I need to save my money so I can go that level.

=======
Yeah, I went and saw this "beauty" of a wj limited ...it really checks out. Been obviously well taken care of. There was a dirt dune nearby where I was able to check out the 4wd (as well as the standard road/hwy driving) tests... it passed all tests without blinking.

Damn, I really like it. Crawled all over it for about 1.5 hours with my sphincter-police probe and check list. Someone's going to get a sweet deal, no doubt.
...But Damn... its so small! ~8^O

The lack of spaciousness really gives me pause. I am used to having two FSJ's around to manage all my s--t ...and I guess I am a bit spoiled. (Does the Overland provide all that much more?)

If I was getting a serious break on gas mileage I think it would tip this, but jeep and gas-savings don't live anywhere in the same neighborhood.
There are other things I am kicking around as well, but that is my main concern that is stopping me from taking it to the next level (proper dealer/mechanic's inspection, final assessment and proposal to buy it from the owner).

That all said, if I didn't have a budget issue I would be writing differently here..., griping about all the things I want to do to it when I get more money (cause I would own it). You gotta understand, I only prefer big because I need big and I can't really splurge... but that little bugger is tasty-sweet, and it would be on my dessert tray, if I had one, in heartbeat.

I didn't think I would like the AWD, but I see how it could be really advantageous in the snow country, and then if/when the vc fails its nice to know I could swap it out for a neat 242 without too much fuss. Hell, it didn't do too badly out in the dune just with that awd. Pretty impressive really. I could see where it would lend a lot of confidence in the mountains where I live.

Oh, and I failed... I tell ya, I tried looking for pics, I read all kinds... but when I got there I was unable to identify if it has a tranny cooler, 'cause I just don't know how to identify it (much as I thought I did). I know the sheet states extra engine cooling -- whatever the hell that is (?)... but for the life of me I just couldn't suss that t-cooler out without having actually seen one. I expected to find a mini rad-type cooler, or possibly a "can", but I don't even know if there exists a "can-type", ...but I didn't see any of those things... fail fail fail --mystery--

I cannot believe I could not locate a single picture of such ...anyone?

==============
Well I am really appreciative of this forum to be able to schmooze with (and learn from) folks who know a thing or two, so thanks for being here.

The shopping isn't over... I get news on my FSJ in two days (goes to a "real jeep guy" tomorrow, and I should have an estimate for things I want done by the next day). In the meantime I have been thinking of how a smaller Jeep might fit into my life in place of one of the FSJ's.
.....With that in mind I have been looking into trailers, roof racks (as fh89 suggested), and some other things.

=============
Oh you know I got it bad... I have also been looking into winches, front towbars, motorcycle tow-rigging for "the" trailer, ...I can't stop the list from growing (somebody stop me, please!).

***Which brings up more questions...
Without going overboard (yeah, right) and having to just yet create another post on this, can y'all provide some insight on the following issue (?)...

Say I want to be able to...
- flat tow the jeep, which necessitates towbar rigging up front
- have a front tow hitch for attachments (like my little weenie snowplow attachment and such --hey, its just for simple stuff, okay..), and
- have a winch I could alternately use front and/or back

...how does one "organize" all that front rigging?
I mean, if I mount a towbar on there, do I then mount both the hooks and the towbar anchors on it? Do they install side by side, or do tow anchors replace (and double for) the front hooks? ...?
Do I build/buy a winch platform right onto the front towbar, or use a winch platform that plugs into the 2" receiver front and/or back?


I am having trouble envisioning how having all those features available might formulate into a comprehensive 'package'. I'd love to hear y'alls thoughts on this.

THANKS!
TwoHawks
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Unread 09-09-2010, 09:02 PM   #13
freakinheep89
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that post is way too long, but no the Overland is not any larger than a LTD, they are just nicer
__________________
TJ-
[SIZE="1"][B]95 ZJ 5.2[/B]- D30/XJ shafts/D35 Yukon alloys,249, 2"BB, 30x9.5"Wildcat EXT,lots of motor mods, rancho shocks & stabilizer.[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=slayercr23;12630497]How would i go about Stroking it?[/QUOTE]
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Unread 09-09-2010, 09:06 PM   #14
twohawks
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PS: ...on that winch accessory... as intimated above, I have seen this winch platform that plugs into a 2" tow receiver.... first thing that ran thru my mind was "yeah right, like I'm going to pull all kinds of weight with the focal point on my 2 inch receiver without effing the whole thing up"...

...I mean, wouldn't you want that winch platform attached solidly (welded or bolted) to the whole of the towbar frame ??

The next thing thru my mind, of course, was "how cool, you mean I can put the winch on a platform that I can mount onto the front or back towbars at my whim!" Kind a liked that idea.

So please keep that in mind when addressing my question above in this regard.
Thanks.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 09:08 PM   #15
twohawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakinheep89 View Post
that post is way too long, but no the Overland is not any larger than a LTD, they are just nicer
Thanks fk89. Maybe I will post a separate thread per the front end package thing.
Thanks for your reflections.
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