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Unread 07-09-2011, 06:49 PM   #1
wjester3
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1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Johnson City
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97 ZJ ARRRGGHHHIssues.... still at hand!

Hello all... I have had all sorts of intersting issues. I swapped the front end that was originaly 2wd to a 242 4WD unit... That thread is here...


But.....,
I have always had what I thought as electrcal ignition issues the whole time i've had it. So....When I bought the car about 20,000 miles ago it has always had a skip to the engine (nothing too major, i thought.) I could start it up and drive away and after a couple of block it would stutter. I'd let of the throttle and she would take a breath and continue on with no real issues other than an occasional stutter. Only code i get from the computer is 12 "Loss of power to PCM in the last 50 turns of the ignition". Checked those connections, which I have found to be the subject of many a post, cleaned them and made sure all was seated correctly. Still get the code so I have always thought the PCM needs replacing to. But I was always able to drive along with only the occasional shudder from the engine.

Til recently.

My fiance was on the way home one evening a few months ago.... when she was coming around a corner a bit of storm debris had fallen on the road and it probably got up and hit the lower o2 sensor...... being our only vehicle and daily driver I tried to get it fixed as quick as i could but.... one day the gasses i guess built up a bit to much when she stuttered as usual and BLEW UP the muffler!

Had fun replacing all of that.....

Now the stuttering has become more apparant and now it started stalling more often. Then, a few weeks ago, I was driving along and the stutter turned into something of pure evil, (hiccuping, coughing, kicking up a real fuss!), and then stall! wouldn't start again and had to "cool off" before restart. (Usually about five or ten minutes or so.) I checked the computer codes and it came back with an ignition coil malfunction. So.....replace.

Now everything starts going wrong.

I replace the coil and the stuttering becomes more pronounced and all the time. so after getting checking the codes again I get new ones. STill getting the same "12", but now we get a "43", misfire...., huh?, I went and replace everything in the dizzy.... the "pickup" the rotor and the cap have been replaced and...... It gets worse!!

I checked all the posts I could and many pointed me to next in line from the PCM, the crank sensor.

Replaced that yesterday..........

Bad idea... Now the jeep runs like crap!!!!! It spits and backfires through the intake.... I was barely able to limp home....and it only stalled about 8 times! Ican only think now that either the timing chain needs replaced and the computer needs replaced. I got the chain set today ad the PCM will be here in the middle of the week.
SO... I begin the chain job.

I get the timing on TDC with compression blowing the finger out #1 to be sure of the stroke. Then I proceed to remove the timing chain cover and discover this......

A picture is worth at thousand words so take a gander and tell me if you think this looks right....this really blows my mind!!!......






I haven't touched a thing other than to remove the timing cover. You can see the cam mark all the way at the back of the case... and the crank mark seems to be in the correct position. But am I correct in thinking that the cam is 180 off....??? HAs it been off the entire time I've had the truck??? How odd is this!!!???

Please respond ASAP as I am going back over to the house to work on it tomorrow.



Thanks all for the help!!!

Wes

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Unread 07-09-2011, 10:44 PM   #2
wjester3
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Johnson City
Posts: 47
Anyone??

I am really baffled by this discovery... I believe I am going to open the valve cover tommorow and ensure the valves are under the proper tension. MAy as well clean up a bit while i am in there. I really don't know how else to attack this other than the haynes manual and the old school mechanic knowledge... I think this is a proper strategy so I guess I'll figure out more tomorrow... would like to get some more ideas before I take that gear set apart.

Cheers!
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Unread 07-09-2011, 10:52 PM   #3
elf517
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Did you use mopar sensors when you replaced them because these jeeps hate any other brand of sensor
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Unread 07-09-2011, 11:19 PM   #4
wjester3
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yeah. Only the direct fit o2 sensors fit. I also got the CKS but the only one they had was a MAsterPro or a BMD....Got the MP.... that was a bear to change out too..... had only a bbit of clearance to get it in and out. All of the one I have put in have been good and get good reads from the computer. My thinking is that the original CKS may not have been picking up a difference as much as the new one has..... Short of backing off the tranny to verify the notch alignment to check it...and that is really not going to be that easy of an option for me.

And what kind of thoughts arise when you see the picture of the cam alignment?
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Unread 07-10-2011, 08:29 AM   #5
JS97ZJ
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First thing is the "intermittent sputter" is more than likely an electrical problem and not anything to do with the timing chain.

Try changing the CPS, check the primary and secondary ignition connections and components. This is a common problem with the 96-98 zj's.

If I were to put money on it, the PCM is your problem. But you'll have to go though the system first. Try the ty-wrap trick around the PCM connectors like in the photo, and read up on the problem in this long a** thread many have added to. The PCM in my J blew off a brand new muffler too

If you rotate that crank shaft another 180*, the marks will probably align pretty close.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/i...rokee-1112078/
zeejay-pcm.jpg  
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Unread 07-10-2011, 08:59 AM   #6
ZJOwner96
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Hi

About your cam issue check where your dizzy is sitting while you have it apart. Then you will know.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 09:16 AM   #7
wjester3
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The dizzy is pointing at the number one tower. I had meant to put that in the original post, Sorry. But I am still thrown at the fact that the cam is pointed 180 off. So is the concensus saying that the timing ids right??? I humbly disagree... The timing marks should line up at TDC on the compresssion stroke and in this case all of the components seem to be right.... dizzy point at the #1 tower, crank at TDC..... but the cam marks...I don't get it.

Guess I'll take off the valve cover and check the tension there.... I should know more later.

Thanks again!
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Unread 07-10-2011, 09:34 AM   #8
JS97ZJ
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Chain replacement proceedure..........
4.0-timing.png  
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Unread 07-10-2011, 10:00 AM   #9
wjester3
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Thanks for the spec diagram. It does show installation as being lined up, as far as, at the onset. But a question still remains for my curiosity.

Should the marks be lined up right at this moment at TDC?

if not, this is the first I've ever seen that. If so then there should be no argument that the cam is out of position. That is the issue I am questioning....whether the cam is off right now.

If that concensus is yes then I will spin it to the right position before I begin the installation of the new parts.

Begining the valve cover removal in a bit.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 10:10 AM   #10
JS97ZJ
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Here try this one...
timing2.png  
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Unread 07-10-2011, 10:50 AM   #11
wjester3
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Seems like alot of trouble to find the correct travel rate.... But I am in the process of removing the cover now.... Already have the dizzy wires off removing the spark plugs shouldn't take too much out of the time crunch. Will check back in about an hour or so. I still think thiis cam may be off by a couple of degrees.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 10:58 AM   #12
JS97ZJ
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I still think it's the PCM.

The PCM has a wide curve when it comes to timing and engine performance matters. If it is the chain, it will be the first time I've read about it in this forum.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 11:55 AM   #13
wjester3
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Well I got the cover off and have verified that I can spin both #1 pushrods with little effort. This verifies the engine is TDC on #1. With this being the case that cam gear marking is definitively wrong! so I will replace it with the new stuff I have on hand.

Someone at the factory must have been drunk the day they built this motor.... I always thoiught the marks should line up with each other when the timing chain cover is removed.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 08:47 PM   #14
ZJOwner96
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Me too. It could be that the dizzy and cam are 180 out. Set EVERYTHING the way it supposed to be per the den then YOU know it is correct.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 10:56 PM   #15
wjester3
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WEll In the next day or so when I can get back over to the house and work on it...

I will spin the crank acouple of time and do a visual inspection of all the companents. From there I will continue to replace the parts required once all my own inhibitions about the timing are subsided..... (This whole thing is confusing!)

(The very last thing I need, is to get this all back together, only to find out it went back together wrong and the valves and head get shredded!)

So...... a day or so of comments would be helpful in my decision. I welcome all opinions.
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