97 ZJ 4.0 Died and Will not restart - Not sure it's the CKP - JeepForum.com
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Unread 07-24-2013, 07:27 AM   #1
merlot2twisty
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1997 ZJ 
 
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Location: CensorNazi, Ohio
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97 ZJ 4.0 Died and Will not restart - Not sure it's the CKP

Since the CKP is a PITA to change no matter how you look at it, I'd rather not "just change it" without being reasonably sure it's the cause.

DETAILS:

Wife was driving the ZJ yesterday in wet conditions. The rain had stopped, but we were getting local flash flooding -- so water intrusion is a possibility here.

Engine started sputtering and died over the course of about 5 seconds. After that, the engine would fire, run very very roughly for 2-5 seconds and die. Throttle input had no effect.

No Check engine light, no pending codes. As far as the PCM is concerned, nothing is wrong.

It gets fuel -- since it does fire a little -- you can also smell the raw fuel in the exhaust. So, this looks like an ignition issue to me.

I had read (somewhere) that when the CKP fails, you will get no fuel and no spark. Well, clearly, I am getting a little of both. Since the PCM shows no codes, I don't have a great starting point.


I had a screwdriver with me, so I pulled the distributor cap. It was dry in there. It looked like it was a bit worn down, but not enough to prevent it from running.

By the time I got home (on the tow truck) with the ZJ, the battery was dead from starting attempts. I put it on the charger and poked around a little bit, but go nowhere. Since it was getting late and the light was fading, I went inside to bed.

This morning, since the battery was fully charged, I cranked the engine over for at least 10 seconds, hoping that if a CKP code was going to show up, that it would. Still nothing. PCM is oblivious.



NEXT STEPS:

When I get home, I'm going to use my timing light to test for spark from the coil, and then on the output of the distributor. Since I know the injectors are firing (although maybe not at the right time) I know that I'm not having a fuel/injector issue.

I'd rather not just throw parts at a problem. Sometimes that's all you can do, but I'd prefer to exhaust the diagnostic tree first.

Could I have a bad cam sensor instead of a bad crank sensor? Possible coil failure? Distributor cap?

I found the ohmmeter test for the CKP; however, some people say that it can be bad and not show resistance -- so if I get resistance, it's definitely bad, and if not, it might be good -- and might not be.

What's the procedure to test the cam sensor?

Ideas?

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Unread 07-24-2013, 08:19 AM   #2
JS97ZJ
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Disconnect the o2's and see if the engine starts to run normally. Then check for water around your connections to everything else. (PCM)+
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Unread 07-24-2013, 08:22 AM   #3
merlot2twisty
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Yeah, I just found ZeeJay's excellent troubleshooting post

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/1.../#post14045654

I will be testing the PCM wiring tonight.
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Unread 07-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #4
merlot2twisty
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Well, if this doesn't beat the band!

The ZJ was out of gas.

Apparently, our fuel gauge has decided to not work below 1/4 tank. I will be investigating more, but it's up and running now that I put some fuel in it.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 02:44 AM   #5
Oldfrog
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There was a recall on the 97 fuel sending unit. The symptoms were.....you guessed it....they showed 1/4 tank when empty.
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Words of wisdom, Posted by Zeejay:
"..it's not air, it is the opposite of air... suckage so to speak."

Stalling? Work through Zeejay's list
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Unread 07-25-2013, 04:50 AM   #6
ZeeJay1997
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G-tCIRJH9p0

Go here and see if has had the recall performed.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 06:51 AM   #7
dellis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlot2twisty View Post
Well, if this doesn't beat the band!

The ZJ was out of gas.

Apparently, our fuel gauge has decided to not work below 1/4 tank. I will be investigating more, but it's up and running now that I put some fuel in it.
Welcome to the club.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #8
merlot2twisty
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Zeejay,

Unfortunately, I replaced my fuel pump assembly last year with an AirTex unit -- so even if I was subject to the recall, they probably won't do anything for me.

Looks like I may be stuck with buying another pump assembly for $150+

Obviously, I will stay away from Airtex since it failed 4 months after the 1-year warranty expired.....Can just the fuel level sensor be replaced?
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Unread 07-25-2013, 12:23 PM   #9
Oldfrog
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yes
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Words of wisdom, Posted by Zeejay:
"..it's not air, it is the opposite of air... suckage so to speak."

Stalling? Work through Zeejay's list
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Unread 07-25-2013, 12:41 PM   #10
merlot2twisty
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Where do I get the fuel level sensor? I've only found entire assemblies.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 12:43 PM   #11
Oldfrog
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Dealer
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Cajun Recipes and Fishing tips

Words of wisdom, Posted by Zeejay:
"..it's not air, it is the opposite of air... suckage so to speak."

Stalling? Work through Zeejay's list
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Unread 07-25-2013, 12:45 PM   #12
merlot2twisty
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Lol. That's gonna be expensive.
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Unread 07-25-2013, 01:09 PM   #13
Oldfrog
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Ask about the recall. You might get lucky.
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Words of wisdom, Posted by Zeejay:
"..it's not air, it is the opposite of air... suckage so to speak."

Stalling? Work through Zeejay's list
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Unread 07-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #14
merlot2twisty
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Fair enough. I'll check that link when I have my VIN handy
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