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Unread 08-13-2013, 08:17 PM   #1
1998tjsport
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5.9 Track lock question

So heres the deal, I have a 5.9 zj all stock. 120k on the clock tcase is bad and the front shaft is out so its rwd. The rear dif make no noise at all and drives fine until you drive it for a while 30-40 miles. Once the fluid gets hot it acts up. When you come around turns slow (0-5 mph) it makes a ratcheting noise and it is sort of jumpy, once you are going strait or taking turns fast it is fine, but makes a slight noise when turning at speed. I took the cover off and the fluid was nasty looking (I am talking original) but the dif was full with no leaks and the gears and spiders looks new and all turned and work fine with nothing unusual looking.

So my question is this, how can I tell if the limited slip is bad? Do you think if I add new fluid and friction modifier it will be ok? Whats the rebuild cost if it need to be done? Thanks.

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Unread 08-13-2013, 08:42 PM   #2
leadfootny
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I would try a fluid change first. Sounds like it was run without the modifier in it. If it wasn't left that way for too long that should do it. Otherwise you will need a rebuild but am not sure what that would run.
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Unread 08-13-2013, 08:51 PM   #3
1998tjsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfootny View Post
I would try a fluid change first. Sounds like it was run without the modifier in it. If it wasn't left that way for too long that should do it. Otherwise you will need a rebuild but am not sure what that would run.
Yeah but if it had no modifier in it don't you think it would have happened wayyyyyy sooner. This fluid defiantly had some mileage on it so I am sure these symptoms would have been there for years if this was the case. I don't mind rebuilding it if I have to but I wonder if adding new fluid ever helped anyone with similar issues.....
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Unread 08-14-2013, 02:38 AM   #4
Timo_90xj
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Depends.. you usually do notice the missing friction modifier even if you run GL-5 LS- rated diff fluid, but it may take thousands of miles for the clutches to start acting up big time if you're mainly street driving it. I've always added a bottle of Mopar (or similar) friction modifier when I change the rear diff fluid even though I'm usually buying LS- rated synthetic fluid (harsh winters = better lubrication with full syn). As the name implies, it modifies the friction of the fluid, making the clutches work smoother and prevent excessive wear.

Changing the clutch packs is fairly simple if they are worn (most likely they are):
* Pop the diff cover, drain fluid
* Remove center pin; this is your only true PITA, since the center pin mounting screw has a habit of snapping - I'd buy a new one no matter if it's good or not
* Remove c-clips and pull the shafts
* Pop off spider gears, remove clutch packs (check which way the concave is on the thrust washers on the clutch packs!)
* Install new clutch packs (I would buy OEM Spicer brand packs)
* Install the spider gears
* Push in shafts and install c-clips
* Install center pin + mounting bolt


Installing the spider gears may be a little pain too, I've found the easiest way to keep the side gears (the ones with the splines for axle shafts) in place, and slightly compress the clutches for installing the other two, is to use two pieces of long all-thread - one for both sides - couple of nuts and large HD washers. Other large washer at the end of axle tube (on the tube, not on the bearing!), other one against the spider gear. Tighten until top/ bottom spider gears are easy to slip in.

Chances are, the reason for your rear end making some noise is worn clutches and at least some of the ears broken off on both sides of the clutch packs. It happens very often. I drove mine with broken ears for god knows how long without even knowing it.

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Unread 08-14-2013, 04:52 AM   #5
leadfootny
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The way I understand it, the clutches will chatter pretty quick without the modifier but damage won't occur for quite awhile. Nice explanation on a trac lok rebuild Timo. I should have looked into the unit when I had it apart, didn't realize the ears could snap that way. Since mine wasn't acting up, it didn't even occur to me. Oh well, I might be back in there in a few thousand miles anyways...
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Unread 08-14-2013, 07:05 AM   #6
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Add friction modifier , had the same issue . Worked on mine .
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Unread 08-14-2013, 09:50 AM   #7
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All the friction modifier does is prevent the track loc from working since it allows it to slip more which causes more wear. The only reason they add it is to keep it quiet because people complain. With no friction mod in there you are getting the full benefit of the track loc working.

Think about transmission clutches. A loose soft shift causes wear. Firm harsh shifts are better for the clutches.
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Unread 08-14-2013, 10:02 AM   #8
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I understand what your saying Polka . OP's issue is quite disturbing if like mine was . I happened to stretch out and eyeball the driveshaft/rear pinion while it made this action/clicking . Not pretty , like the diff binds up the snaps free . Intense jerking and it wrenches hard on the driveline .
It happened on my 93 . Just came from the dealer too with a fresh oil change . Me thinks they forgot the additive . I pulled the cover and the oil was spotless clear . Swapped in some Royal Purple and never ad the issue again . FM would have done the same if added IMO . I added some FM to my Slate 5.9 since changing the oil to remedy a similar issue .

Better performance , maybe , but , I'd prefer not to have things binding up snapping the driveline as they did .
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Unread 08-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #9
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Weird, I have never heard of a LSD ripping the drive line apart. There are plenty of people on 4x4 forums and sport car forums who don't use the FM in their LSD. Some say they have over 100k on it and no problems. It's my understanding that if you add it you want to add just enough so that it isn't too loud a noisy all the time but not too much that the clutches slip too much since it would be ineffective.
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Unread 08-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfieZJ View Post
I understand what your saying Polka . OP's issue is quite disturbing if like mine was . I happened to stretch out and eyeball the driveshaft/rear pinion while it made this action/clicking . Not pretty , like the diff binds up the snaps free . Intense jerking and it wrenches hard on the driveline .
It happened on my 93 . Just came from the dealer too with a fresh oil change . Me thinks they forgot the additive . I pulled the cover and the oil was spotless clear . Swapped in some Royal Purple and never ad the issue again . FM would have done the same if added IMO . I added some FM to my Slate 5.9 since changing the oil to remedy a similar issue .

Better performance , maybe , but , I'd prefer not to have things binding up snapping the driveline as they did .
That is a very good description of what is going on.....I am going to see how much it costs to redo the clutches tho it seems pretty strait forward. Thanks for all of the replies. Any idea what to get the clutches for the dif?
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Unread 08-14-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo_90xj View Post
Depends.. you usually do notice the missing friction modifier even if you run GL-5 LS- rated diff fluid, but it may take thousands of miles for the clutches to start acting up big time if you're mainly street driving it. I've always added a bottle of Mopar (or similar) friction modifier when I change the rear diff fluid even though I'm usually buying LS- rated synthetic fluid (harsh winters = better lubrication with full syn). As the name implies, it modifies the friction of the fluid, making the clutches work smoother and prevent excessive wear.

Changing the clutch packs is fairly simple if they are worn (most likely they are):
* Pop the diff cover, drain fluid
* Remove center pin; this is your only true PITA, since the center pin mounting screw has a habit of snapping - I'd buy a new one no matter if it's good or not
* Remove c-clips and pull the shafts
* Pop off spider gears, remove clutch packs (check which way the concave is on the thrust washers on the clutch packs!)
* Install new clutch packs (I would buy OEM Spicer brand packs)
* Install the spider gears
* Push in shafts and install c-clips
* Install center pin + mounting bolt


Installing the spider gears may be a little pain too, I've found the easiest way to keep the side gears (the ones with the splines for axle shafts) in place, and slightly compress the clutches for installing the other two, is to use two pieces of long all-thread - one for both sides - couple of nuts and large HD washers. Other large washer at the end of axle tube (on the tube, not on the bearing!), other one against the spider gear. Tighten until top/ bottom spider gears are easy to slip in.

Chances are, the reason for your rear end making some noise is worn clutches and at least some of the ears broken off on both sides of the clutch packs. It happens very often. I drove mine with broken ears for god knows how long without even knowing it.

Thank you for this..... very helpful
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1998 TJ Sport 5 Speed 31x10.5s, completely murdered out, and a short throw haha (miss that jeep)
1999 TJ SE 5 Speed (ls swap that became a part-out due to excess frame rot)
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Unread 08-14-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
PolkaPower
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The part number on my receipt is 707018X 44d aluminum clutch pack Just put the number into google and many places pop of selling it.

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-6...plate-kit.aspx

http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com...oduct-446.html

http://www.northerndrivetrain.com/pr...I-707018X.html
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Unread 08-14-2013, 12:18 PM   #13
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edit: IIRC I had the same numbers on my Spicer clutch pack box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
All the friction modifier does is prevent the track loc from working since it allows it to slip more which causes more wear. The only reason they add it is to keep it quiet because people complain. With no friction mod in there you are getting the full benefit of the track loc working.

Think about transmission clutches. A loose soft shift causes wear. Firm harsh shifts are better for the clutches.
Not entirely true; you gotta remember a limited slip differential is not a fully locking device, it only "locks" partially. An automatic transmission clutch is supposed to grab and stay locked, it's only meant to slip very slightly during shifts.

In other words, on an LSD differential you must have enough constant smooth slippage during turns etc. between the clutch discs and the friction pads or they will chatter/ wear out excessively fast. If you have too much friction the operation of the LSD is not smooth, it sort of grabs and releases on turns -> not good for the clutches. That is the "crunchy" sound and jerking feeling you get. That's why you want to use friction modifier even though it slightly reduces the locking capacity of the differential.
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1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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Unread 08-14-2013, 01:48 PM   #14
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Well I didn't pull it apart yet but you can see some of them by looking past the carrier. Defiantly all cracked and chewed up, guess I will replace them while I'm in there. This jeep is just going to be a station car that drive under 2 miles but still might as well make it right for the few times I wheel it or if I ever intend to sell it.
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1998 TJ Sport 5 Speed 31x10.5s, completely murdered out, and a short throw haha (miss that jeep)
1999 TJ SE 5 Speed (ls swap that became a part-out due to excess frame rot)
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Unread 08-14-2013, 03:53 PM   #15
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Those clutch disc ears may stay there for the next 50 000 miles, or they can fall and chew up your R&P & bearings the next time you drive to the station. It really depends.. mostly they don't cause serious issues, but it sure is not a good thing for them to stay that way.

It's easy and cheap enough to replace them on your driveway or a DIY garage to have a piece of mind. Heck, if you take it to a shop it should be no more than 1-2 hours of labour.
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http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/d...s-etc-1222317/


1990 XJ Limited (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, ***rolled and totalled @ 165k miles***

***Under construction***
1990 XJ (4-door), 4.0 I6, AW4, NP242, PBR 42" tires, Unimog 404 portal axles, 110" WB, full cage + uniframe completely rebuilt, front 3-link + panhard / double triangulated 4-link rear,... ***SOLD***
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