5.2 leaking head - mechanic's solution - Page 2

Mickey_D · 01-03-2009, 06:01 PM

The first thing I thought of was to ask the "mechanic" (and I use the term loosely) to pop his radiator cap and see if there's any of that crap in HIS engine.

I'd be almost willing to lay my next paycheck on the countertop there isn't a scrap of it in his...

ZeeJay1997 · 01-03-2009, 06:14 PM

I knew an old mechanic who built engines for 50 years. He regularly put the copper speck type leak stop in his engines. He would put it in with nothing but water for road testing, then flush and fill with coolant. If the leak stop didn't find a leak to plug, it was gone from the system.

This worked great until someone used one of those caustic type coolant cleaners to flush the system. Then the leaks would unplug.

windsors03cobra · 01-03-2009, 06:17 PM

Jeez everyone make mistakes and scrap happens to everyone. No name internet engines with god knows what type of warranty or customer service ? If you think this local mechanic is bad imagine the hacks selling cheap "rebuilt" engines over the internets from 7 states away. Good luck with that.

I would try to work with the mechanic and if it is not seeping coolant it cant be too bad. FWIW GM uses and recommends bars leaks tabs as a coolant supplement on some engines. (GM, the pinnacle of coolant leaks with crap intake gaskets and rubbish dexcool)

Viscerebral · 01-03-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsors03cobra

Jeez everyone make mistakes and scrap happens to everyone. No name internet engines with god knows what type of warranty or customer service ? If you think this local mechanic is bad imagine the hacks selling cheap "rebuilt" engines over the internets from 7 states away. Good luck with that.

I, for one, have never had issue with any of the crate motors I have used in the past. This isn't about a crate motor. It IS about trying to get a $2000.00 screwup fixed and fixed right, not covered up. This is about a person who doesn't have the integrity to say "Man, I made a mistake. How about I go ahead like an honorable businessman and tear down your heads again and if you'll buy the coolant and another gasket, I'll get you a rental and eat some labor. You know, as an honorable businessman, I know how this blows, and I will (READ THIS NEXT) **MAKE THIS RIGHT***" We as consumers have gotten to the point where we will accept whatever crap comes down the pike, and alot of proprietors are more than willing to leverage this complacency against us AND still take our money. Some folks are so busy covering their @$$3$ that they will lose the potential repeat customer. They ALWAYS go out of business. It is your responsibility as a consumer to help them do that more quickly.
Yes, mistakes are made. Some honest, some from cutting corners. An honest businessman making an honest mistake will "MAKE THINGS RIGHT".
He attempted to work with the guy, the guy compounded the error. If you are willing to allow that to happen to your JEEP and with your money, then by all means, go ahead. I am not. It sounds like OP isn't, and I'd bet my left butt cheek that most on the JF won't either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsors03cobra

I would try to work with the mechanic and if it is not seeping coolant it cant be too bad. FWIW GM uses and recommends bars leaks tabs as a coolant supplement on some engines. (GM, the pinnacle of coolant leaks with crap intake gaskets and rubbish dexcool)

Maybe he was a former GM mechanic, but again, a moot point. Take your time and do a job right and you have something to be proud of. However, this guy didn't have time to do it right the first time, and he couldn't find time to do it right a second time (as is usually the case). So he used a shortcut that wasn't what the OP paid for.

**indianajeep** · 01-03-2009, 08:13 PM

well, this definitely is not like the good old days. Back in 1995, I had blown the head gaskets on my 3.3 dodge intrepid. I took it to a local shop in little ole' Spencer, Indiana, and the guy did an outstanding job. Never had a leak or any issues with it. I cruised across some good portions of the nevada desert doing speeds in excess of 90 and 110 (hope the statute of limitations has run out on that). Anyways, this just goes to show the problem with this country anymore, and I truly believe this - getting it right the first time is impossible - no one believes in quality - almost no one believes in taking care of the customer. It's almost like the customer is a side issue - a pain in the @@s who is standing in the way of access to your money as a business person. This is why I do all my oil changes myself and turn a wrench on all my cars to the greatest extent possible. I just replaced an oil pump myself in the jeep for that very reason. It was a royal PIA, but guess what - it was done right, and I know I wont be trashing an engine because of a shoddy oil pump replacement.

I am going to replace the engine within a year with a remanufactured engine. Do any of you all have any recommendations who I should deal with?

windsors03cobra · 01-03-2009, 09:08 PM

Jasper Engine right there in Indiana is suppose to be of the best engine rebuilder/reman'er out there, course those have been installed and started after paying $3k for just a long block only to have an immediate crankcase milkshake due to a cracked head. I been there and done this a bunch of times in my travels working on junk (cars), all that work only to have to have something go wrong (most times its a bad junkyard engine or trans

)and then to dread redoing it all again, atleast all the fasteners are freshly turned and the tips and tricks fresh in the mind.

I heard Gopher Engines were pretty good too, local rebuilders can be good or shody, shady, rip off artists.

**indianajeep** · 01-03-2009, 09:11 PM

cobra - like your stang - my other car is an 08 Grabber Orange Stang with the V6.

**indianajeep** · 01-03-2009, 09:14 PM

at this point I am considering going to another shop after thorughly researching their background - having them check the work of this guy - if his work is crap, and I think it is, then I'll have them make it right and contact my credit card company for reversal of charges for poor workmanship.

Viscerebral · 01-03-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indianajeep

I am going to replace the engine within a year with a remanufactured engine. Do any of you all have any recommendations who I should deal with?

The ATK blocks Quadratec uses have a 3YR/60K warranty. Never used them though. Last crate long blocks I used were both from Jasper, a Mitsu 4 banger and Jeep 4.0. Both good.

**indianajeep** · 01-05-2009, 03:10 PM

OK - today one of the original problems that warranted the head replacement returned (Thank God! It gave me another excellent reason to return the car). The top hose swelled up harder than a brick bat and coolant started seeping out of the hose around the thermostat housing - sure fire sign of compression gases leaking into the coolant system. I called up the mechanic, told him the problem, and he said, "Well, it looks like we'll have to tear her down again." No kidding, really? When I got there tonight he said he would do a compression test on it. He said it is possible that the remanufactured heads were cracked. I agree - it's a known problem with the factory 5.2 heads. There are companies out there that make new heads from totally new, redesigned castings, and make a point in their advertising of stating that these are better than the original factory heads that were prone to cracking. So I told him, "If the heads are cracked, I would prefer that you get the money back from the machine shop and purchase totally new heads. I am willing to pay the extra amount for the new heads." He said he could do that.

So now, this is my question for the experienced mechanics - Considering that the car does not overheat - always runs at about 195, and I have installed a new temp sending unit just to make sure - Considering that the main symptom is compression gases in the coolant - the top hose swells up hard as a rock and seeps - Is there a possibility that the block is cracked? Or is this simply a case of a bad head installation or cracked head?

Viscerebral · 01-05-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indianajeep

Considering that the main symptom is compression gases in the coolant - the top hose swells up hard as a rock and seeps - Is there a possibility that the block is cracked? Or is this simply a case of a bad head installation or cracked head?

Yes to any.
What would be more likely though? Crappy workmanship would allow exhaust gases into the coolant, and it could be crappy workmanship from the machine shop (maybe), or from the original casting (maybe), or from he gasket mfgr (maybe), or from your mechanic (maybe, but I lean this direction). What would you have done to crack the block on a 5.2? It is a great design that has been real world tested for decades. I mean, anything is possible, but from the gasket up is the likely weak spot barring the weird. Have the mating surface checked for flatness when the heads come back off, but I'll bet you will find a bit of discoloration where it was leaking past the gasket as a result of a poor job.

**indianajeep** · 01-05-2009, 05:41 PM

The whole problem with the upper hose started after I had the coolant system flushed out at a jeep dealership. I figure that the head gasket or gasket repair crap was shot loose and that started the whole problem. There were 2 owners before me, who put 114,000 miles on it in 13 years of ownership. Low miles for a jeep this age. I don't know what they had done - probably neglect more than anything. But the engine bay and the body were immaculately clean - I mean like showroom perfect. When taken apart, the engine had a lot of sludge in the top half. It had hardly any sludge in the bottom half. I changed the oil pump, which was dark and discolored. Don't know what that means, but my son-in-law thought it was a sign that she had been run hot at some point. Also, before I had the flush done on the coolant, it was brownish and gnarly looking.

dieth · 01-05-2009, 06:00 PM

I'm curious what problems there are with the 5.2L heads? The 5.2/318 has been around a long time. Are the newer 5.2L heads a different design? Other than the electronic fuel injection, it looks like the same ole 318.

The water pumps are crappy though...I've gone through 2 and the thing is getting noisy again.

**indianajeep** · 01-05-2009, 07:24 PM

This is an article that talks about the propensity of magnum heads to crack:

http://popularhotrodding.automotive....ine/index.html

Regarding the design differences, this is a nice article about the differences between the LA and the Magnum heads: http://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php/topic,295.0.html

ras2001wj · 01-05-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieth

I'm curious what problems there are with the 5.2L heads? The 5.2/318 has been around a long time. Are the newer 5.2L heads a different design? Other than the electronic fuel injection, it looks like the same ole 318.

The water pumps are crappy though...I've gone through 2 and the thing is getting noisy again.

I did 3 WP's on my Dakota 318. Had it down to a 25 minute job. Check your fan clutch, thats what killed mine.