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Unread 11-09-2012, 04:40 AM   #1
GTB
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46RH tranny- fix or replace?

Hey there,
I got this puppy for $500 and she's a looker, nice interior, no body damage, nice paint, etc. (BUT, a dead fish,tho, which is my point). I gave my '93 4.0 to my ex-gf's son when I was up in N. CA on my last 6mo. mining trip (N. fork Yuba River, for those who care...).

Anyway, the truck had no 1 lo or reverse but I took a chance on her. She was so covered in red dust that I didn't realize she was actually silver until I washed her down. I moved the tow bar, tires, and winch from the 4.0 to this one ('95 5.2) and dragged her home behind the bus (motorhome). I had to drag the other one home anyway I figured. And WTH, a 5.2 in 'nice shape' for 5 bills.

From what I have read, 1 lo & reverse are on the rear band. The tranny is WAY over full. Fluid is dark (not burnt smelling). The trans just BARELY tries to move the truck in 1 LO and reverse, the other gears and TC are fine as far as I can tell. Once I got her home I drove her 100mi round trip to get her registered in AZ (did I mention I live in the middle of no where?).

So, the question is this: Should I drop the pan, do a filter, fluid change, and band adjustment, perhaps solenoid work? Or just bite the bullet and rebuild the tranny?

I am not a trans person, the fuel injection stuff is simple compared to this (at least for me). Would it be worth the time/fluid/filter etc. to give it a whirl?
Or is the this 46RH trans most likely toast?

I'm really missing my 4.0 '93, but I'll get over it once I'm done fixing someone else's stupidity/neglect (which makes me wish people were more like Jeeps...).

Thank-you for any help you may have,
GTB BCC, AZ


Plants are what food eats.


Last edited by GTB; 11-09-2012 at 05:15 AM..
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Unread 11-09-2012, 06:05 AM   #2
Spanovich008
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I would start with a fluid and filter change, and band adjustment first. A fluid and filter change takes about an hour to do, which requires pulling the pan, and you have to pull the pan to adjust the bands anyways. I would hold off on the solenoid work for now, because the sensors for those transmissions are a little on the pricey side (pressure sensor and solenoid is like $150 bucks for both) and it doesn't sound like those are your problem.

You can get ATF+4 Super Tech fluid at Wal-Mart for roughly $3.50 a can, which will cost you about $28 ($3.50 per quart X 8 quarts). You can also buy a pan gasket and filter at Advance Auto or Autozone for........$10-$20? (can't quite remember.) Either way, I would try this first before spending a lot more money overhauling the transmission.

Also, if the fluid and filter change doesn't work, you should consider buying a re-manufactured transmission rather than getting it rebuilt. Rebuilding it costs anywhere from $1400-$2500 at a shop, and you can usually buy re-manufactured ones on ebay for $500-$600 and install them yourself.

Hope this helped
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Unread 11-09-2012, 06:11 AM   #3
Spanovich008
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I'm not a transmission guy by any means, but my ZJ had a similar problem when I bought it: Somebody rebuilt it and didn't adjust the bands right, so it had mild acceleration in 1st and slipped from 1st to 2nd, however all the other gears were fine. I performed a simple band adjustment, and changed the fluid and filter, and it works like a charm now. Shifts nice and tight.
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Unread 11-09-2012, 08:43 AM   #4
jnicewan
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With the exception of reverse, are you saying you have first gear just not in low/manual first. If so that seems kind of strange since really the only thing different is the low/rev (rear) band is applied in manual first but only for engine braking, its applied in reverse two. If there was a failure of some sort with the low/rev band you would probably lose reverse gear but still have first just no engine braking in manual 1st.

The loss of reverse could be the band, apply piston, strut etc but another common problem is the O/D direct clutch piston snap ring. This snap ring is known to fail and break and almost always drops pieces into the pan. You will lose reverse when this happens but if not fixed it will start eating into the O/D piston and hard part damage will happen. I am not sure if this concern can take out first or not. Suggest dropping the pan and check the pan for debris.
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Unread 11-09-2012, 03:10 PM   #5
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Ok, now I'm a bit confused (nothing new). By 'manual' I asume that you mean when shifted from D to R or 1? If that's what you mean then I guess we're on the same page.
When shift to reverse - nothing but a very slight 'attempt' to move. Same thing when shifted to 1. Since I'm doing other engine work just now, I can't road test it at the moment. It's been awhile since I've had her on the road but I don't remember any odd behavior in D(rive). I think I'll try the cheapo attempt with the filter/fluid/band before I start getting too freaked about it. Does that make sense?
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Unread 11-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #6
Foundrydude
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If the fluid's dark and it's doing this and you've driven it another hundred miles on top of that......don't bother with a fluid change. It's $40 and an hour of being covered in tranny fluid that you ain't getting back.

You might consider dropping the pan, and looking to see if there's anything obviously wrong, like one of the band adjustment bolts has fallen out, etc. But if nothing jumps out as obvious, the next step would be to pull the trans rather than proceed with new fluid

Good luck with the rebuild/replacement. I've had my 46rh out twice. It's SUPER FUN.
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Unread 11-09-2012, 06:16 PM   #7
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Hey there, Foundrydude,
Kinda what I figured. I read a flame between polka and some pin head called DrDick and I can't understand why Mr.dick called jeeps POS's. The SUPER FUN comes with the territory, I figure. Seems like I'm gonna crawl through the jungle of grass under her and open the trans to see WTH is going on in there. Better yet, I'll shove her forward out of the jungle...I HATE bermuda grass, grows EVERYWHERE but where you want it. Crawled under last night to work on the O2 sensor and came out looking like I was wearing a gilly suit...jeeze. Thanks for the help, GTB
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Unread 11-11-2012, 02:01 AM   #8
Wulff
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Hey GTB, I was in Black CANYON City just yesterday! I want to check out some of those back roads, Plus I have never been to Crown King and when my 1993 is ready I need to test out my NP242 swap!
I have almost always been a GM guy and for awhile I worked at a Trans shop part-time on Washington street in Phoenix. I am an engineer and Journeyman toolmaker and did machining like rebuilding torque converters, etc. I learned a few things about automatics from the owner while there. One thing is he told me is ANY vehicle you buy you should always add a trans cooler as the radiator cooler just barely keeps the trans alive!He also said to always use "Type F" (made for Fords) trans fluid as GM (don't know about Mopar tho) uses a fluid that 'slips' more so the shifts are less firm. Type F will make the trans shift firmer but will increase the life of trans. He also told me the B&M kits to firm up the shifts will add years to an automatic trans.
Iwould do as a few suggested also, pull the pan and clean out the gunk in the bottom (the gunk and black fluid is from the clutch packs) check everything out (I would check the net to read up on adjusting the bands) and when you put her together use some Lucas brands trans sealer and conditioner and top it off with a good brand of Type F fluid.
Maybe when I get my '93 going I could stop by and you could show me some good areas for target practice (here near Apache Junction there aren't a lot of places, besides I live in an area that the only shooting you hear of is of the criminal type, lol!
Take care, Phil
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Unread 02-06-2013, 06:05 PM   #9
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How in the world did this happen? An update for ya...

Sorry I've been 'missing', but I've been lurking and reading threads/posts before flappin' my lips.

So here's the deal- The rear band adjusting lever/reaction lever strut fell out. I found it on the magnet (duh). There was a small pile of grey sludge near the center of the pan and a small 'fur' coating of metal filings on the magnet. The rear band adjuster arm, of course, now hangs free. All in all, things look clean otherwise.

It appears from the thread by baxy ( http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/4...torial-911009/ ) that it only fits in one way. Perhaps someone rebuilt it wrong or....? From looking at the FSM and in the trans it seems that I'll need to remove the valve body to get to the reaction pin to pull things apart. Hopefully, I can replace the strut at that point.

And hopefully that there isn't too much collateral damage, of course...

We'll see how this goes...Any advice?

Anyone ever heard of this problem? Am I a first?

PS Wulff, PM me - sounds cool (if this SOB gets fixed...lol)

Last edited by GTB; 02-06-2013 at 07:28 PM..
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Unread 02-08-2013, 05:01 PM   #10
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bump

<bump>

Anyone? Since it's going to rain for a day or two, I can't do much more than see if there are any thoughts about this out there.
Thx, GTB
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Unread 02-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #11
TheRealOldjeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
<bump>

Anyone? Since it's going to rain for a day or two, I can't do much more than see if there are any thoughts about this out there.
Thx, GTB
My thoughts - a master rebuild kit is $150. ATSG manual is $20. Only special tools you need are a shop press. It might be time to just rebuild it. Automatics are not scary to work on if you read the directions and take you time.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 07:03 AM   #12
Foundrydude
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I'd throw it back together, it may have fallen apart from the adjuster bolt coming loose. But also remember, if that's true it ran with a really loose band for a while.

It could also have a broken band. See if you can verify the two ends are connected when apart.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 06:38 PM   #13
GTB
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Thx for the replies. Chuck - I agree that the rebuild is an option, just not my last one as yet. Foundrydude - I agree with you as well.

The strut looks brand new on all sides. A small scratch like the one in baxy's thread but this scratch only extends in a bit from each side. Looks nearly new.
There was little sludge in the pan and not an unreasonable amount of filings on the magnet. The only thing in the pan, to speak of, was the strut. The gasket is a Chrysler/Mopar hard 'thick' plastic one. Never seen one before, prob dealer (would explain why I've never seen one). Re-usable?

The tranny looks VERY clean on the outside as well.

Sooo... How can I be sure the band is intact? I planned to push on the part the strut pushes on and look for 'springback/resistance'. If the band is good (and the clutches aren't blown) all I figure I need to do is get that strut where it belongs.

Otherwise...Chuck's plan, I guess...

Any pointers on getting that sucker back in, lemme know. Baxy?

Thanks All, GTB
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Unread 02-09-2013, 07:12 PM   #14
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"Sooo... How can I be sure the band is intact?"

Sorry, Foundrydude, I wasn't sure what you meant by the 'two ends are connected when apart'. Still don't .
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Unread 02-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #15
Foundrydude
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If the band is a continuous a loop, you should be able to push and pull one end and see response in the other.
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