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Unread 03-23-2012, 11:11 AM   #91
baxy
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Could be a torque converter with excessive run out in the hub
Or run out in the crank/flex plate
Those are the only two items common to two different transmissions

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Unread 03-23-2012, 01:06 PM   #92
4404ever
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Hi Baxy,

Thank you so very much for your fast reply..
I thought that there may be a connection to the crank or flexplate since the problem involved two seperate
transmission units...
Thanks again for your help...
Dave
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Unread 09-04-2012, 08:27 PM   #93
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thank you

hey thanks for sharing all this info ........just did my first transmission teardown and this thread was a lifesaver for double checking each step ........just finished it the other day ,so far transmission works good

i did this trans for a relitive and he wanted to use synthetic trans fluid ,i'm sckeptical and was thinking i might change the fluid to the mopor spec ,i've read more then once it's critical on these transmissions (my fathers truck ,he won the argument ,lol ,...but i might switch it w/o him knowing if its a nessesity).....any opinions on that be great

was a 46re from a dodge ram 1500 2wd

and agian thank u for taking the time to post all that
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Unread 09-05-2012, 08:13 AM   #94
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldguywtruck View Post
hey thanks for sharing all this info ........just did my first transmission teardown and this thread was a lifesaver for double checking each step ........just finished it the other day ,so far transmission works good

i did this trans for a relitive and he wanted to use synthetic trans fluid ,i'm sckeptical and was thinking i might change the fluid to the mopor spec ,i've read more then once it's critical on these transmissions (my fathers truck ,he won the argument ,lol ,...but i might switch it w/o him knowing if its a nessesity).....any opinions on that be great

was a 46re from a dodge ram 1500 2wd

and agian thank u for taking the time to post all that
X2. I just finished my transmission and am going to stab it back in the jeep tonight. This tutorial was a major help.

FWIW, on the subject of the fluid, you have to remember we are dealing with the fallout of obsolescense here. What I mean by that is that if I look in my FSM for my 98 Jeep, ATF+3 (formula MS7176D) is what was specified for that year. ATF+4 hadn't even been developed at that point! Unfortunately, because of it's higher performance, Chrysler decided to supercede all previous fluids and just support ATF+4.

ATF+4 is better than ATF+3, but not better. Check out this link:

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html

If you look, from a viscosity standpoint, +4 only suffers a 10% visco loss whereas +3 suffers 14%. Pretty negligible in my opinion. However, I would also direct your attention to the fact that Dex 3 suffers 40%. That should be all the reason you need to not run Dex in a Chrysler.

Another notable passage from the link:
"Contrary to popular myth, one of the stated goals of Type 9602/ATF+4 fluids was that it would have the same frictional characteristics as ATF+3. The paper explicitly states that this was because new clutch materials would not be introduced for this fluid and it had to be backwards compatible with ATF+3. Graphs in the paper show that the friction coefficient of fresh ATF+3 and ATF+4 is essentially identical, but as the fluid ages ATF+4 retains the “as new” coefficient while ATF+3 degrades."
So on fresh fluid, there is very little difference between +3 and +4 (except for cost). However, the older the fluid gets, the wider the margin between the two becomes.

So what does this all mean? If (and that's a big if) you could find +3, you would be more than okay to run it in your 46RE. But don't run Dex.

Anyone correct me if I am way out of line.
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Unread 09-05-2012, 08:16 AM   #95
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If there was atf 4 in it before you shouldn't put 3 in it. You can put atf 4 in there if 3 was previously used.
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Unread 09-05-2012, 08:20 AM   #96
jlipka98zj
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Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
If there was atf 4 in it before you shouldn't put 3 in it. You can put atf 4 in there if 3 was previously used.
I respectfully disagree. I think either are acceptable for use in a 46RE. Chrysler didn't officially make the statement that +4 was replacing +3 until 2005. So how could a transmission built in 1998 not be okay to use +3???
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Unread 09-05-2012, 09:50 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
If there was atf 4 in it before you shouldn't put 3 in it. You can put atf 4 in there if 3 was previously used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlipka98zj View Post
I respectfully disagree. I think either are acceptable for use in a 46RE. Chrysler didn't officially make the statement that +4 was replacing +3 until 2005. So how could a transmission built in 1998 not be okay to use +3???
If it used +3 in 98' then +4 in 05' is O.K.
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Unread 09-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #98
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I am just quoting what Chrysler said. Atf 4 is not backward compatible but you can add it as a replacement. Don't ask me why.

I guess what they are saying is that you can use ATF 4 in a trans that calls for ATF 3 but not vice verse.

Here is more info than I was interested in reading lol http://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen-...f-4-facts.html
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Unread 09-14-2012, 12:15 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
I am just quoting what Chrysler said. Atf 4 is not backward compatible but you can add it as a replacement. Don't ask me why.

I guess what they are saying is that you can use ATF 4 in a trans that calls for ATF 3 but not vice verse.

Here is more info than I was interested in reading lol http://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen-...f-4-facts.html
I see that I have more reading to do!

I'm going to do a rebuild on my 42re in the near future, and was going through all the info I can find on the subject. I know the tranny doesn't need a total rebuild at this time, but with over 230k, one day it will need it, and the metal flakes I found in the pan at the last fluid change (according to Ratmonkey) is a retaining clip that takes 3hrs. to change. So why wait for the inevitable.

Going though Baxy's previous posts, he mentioned the use of AC Delco DEX6 as being the the best for the RE series trans. The question that I have...Does the fluid need to be changed out as often due to it being a better grade? And is it more friendly to the clutch plates when towing?
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Unread 09-14-2012, 12:28 PM   #100
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolkaPower View Post
I am just quoting what Chrysler said. Atf 4 is not backward compatible but you can add it as a replacement. Don't ask me why.

I guess what they are saying is that you can use ATF 4 in a trans that calls for ATF 3 but not vice verse.

Here is more info than I was interested in reading lol http://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen-...f-4-facts.html
Yeah, you got what I was trying to say. However, I just checked Amazon and eBay. ATF+3 is so scarce these days that they charge just as much as +4 does these days. So you're hosed either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS97ZJ View Post
I see that I have more reading to do!

I'm going to do a rebuild on my 42re in the near future, and was going through all the info I can find on the subject. I know the tranny doesn't need a total rebuild at this time, but with over 230k, one day it will need it, and the metal flakes I found in the pan at the last fluid change (according to Ratmonkey) is a retaining clip that takes 3hrs. to change. So why wait for the inevitable.

Going though Baxy's previous posts, he mentioned the use of AC Delco DEX6 as being the the best for the RE series trans. The question that I have...Does the fluid need to be changed out as often due to it being a better grade? And is it more friendly to the clutch plates when towing?
I thought that he just mentioned he pre-soaked the friction plates in DEX6??? Did i miss a post where he flat out recommended using D6 for the working fluid?

Farbeit from me to question any advice Baxy gives. He's a transmission expert, I am not. However, Chrysler is pretty adamant to only use +4 in their transmissions. Call me cautious, but it's all I run...
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Unread 09-14-2012, 02:32 PM   #101
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[QUOTE=jlipka98zj;14166444
I thought that he just mentioned he pre-soaked the friction plates in DEX6??? Did i miss a post where he flat out recommended using D6 for the working fluid?
[/QUOTE]

Just a couple of posts that he made comments on DEX6.....

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/a...64/index3.html

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/t...16/index2.html
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Unread 09-14-2012, 02:45 PM   #102
jlipka98zj
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Originally Posted by JS97ZJ View Post
Not trying to start an argument but in one post he qualified the statement by saying he adds Lubegard. Lubegard advertises that you can add their supplement to any fluid and it brings it up to +4 standards. So to me, why not just buy +4? Lubegard is $10 for 10 oz, and recommend 1 oz per qt of ATF. So you just added $1/qt to whatever your DEX6 costs.

Everything I read says, if anything, that DEX6 is roughly equivalent to +4, not better. And I have yet to see any legitimate evidence to support that. So, since it is questionable, why even chance it? Granted, I didn't do a four hour price comparison, but Amazon and eBay searches are showing that DEX6 costs about the same as +4. If someone can show me something legitimate showing DEX6 as superior in a Chrysler transmission, then I will yield that DEX6 is better. Until then, I will (and recommend to others) stick with what Chrysler is endorsing.

I'm guessing we're all talking about vehicles that have long since passed their warranty period, but one other consideration is that Chrysler is going to black ball you if they find DEX6 where +4 should be.
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Unread 09-14-2012, 03:02 PM   #103
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Chyrsler won't ever get to work on my Jeep. I black balled them for making a crappy PCM that they won't admit to screwing up and not making amends.
Would they recommend using a better fluid in their vehicles if it had a competitors name on it?

Besides............My warranty is well pass it's coverage.
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Unread 09-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #104
jlipka98zj
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Originally Posted by JS97ZJ View Post
Chyrsler won't ever get to work on my Jeep. I black balled them for making a crappy PCM that they won't admit to screwing up and not making amends.
I understand what you are saying. I, too, refuse to take my vehicles to a delership. I'm not advocating it, just saying that there are others out there that do take their jeeps to delerships for service. If that is the case, then that alone is reason enough not to use DEX6. Even if you are out of warranty, if you have ANY tranny problems, you know they are going to point the finger at the fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS97ZJ View Post
Would they recommend using a better fluid in their vehicles if it had a competitors name on it?
Of course they wouldn't! But I'm not arguing that. I take issue that the fluid we are talking about (DEX6) is indeed "better". To my knowledge, no one has shown any evidence demonstrating this. In fact, the 3rd post down on the first link you posted two posts ago shows evidence to the contrary. Though they are talking about DEX3. However, the point is made that there is a science behind OEM's fluid recommendations (sometimes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS97ZJ View Post
Besides............My warranty is well pass it's coverage.
As is mine. But just cuz it's outta warranty doesn't mean you should throw caution to the wind and throw an inferior fluid in it.

My number one point here is that until it is demonstrated the DEX6 is at least equivalent to ATF+4, I wouldn't advise using it. At this point, the statement that DEX6 is superior in Chrysler transmissions is suspect, at best.
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Unread 09-14-2012, 04:23 PM   #105
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Baxy is using it with an after market shift kit.......I'll take my chances...
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