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Unread 01-02-2010, 09:09 AM   #46
crashcraddock
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Awesome write-up! Thanks for taking the time to post all these pics. Is the 45re and 545re much different? I remember you mentioning that you were going to do this in another thread some time ago, so big thanks again.

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Unread 01-02-2010, 02:32 PM   #47
baxy
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these turorial threads are not really ment to be a Q & A forum
you should post a new thread and get input from more than just the people subscribed to this thread
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Unread 03-23-2010, 04:48 PM   #48
jlipka98zj
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Excellent write up man! I was borderline before on doing this, but now I am completely confident I can pull it off. The only part I was even slightly confused on was the 0.015" shim - I believe you used it to set endplay? Kinda got lost there.

Anyways, what shift kit did you use? It didn't look like a TransGo based on the instructions I've read. I'm thinking either a Fairbanks TransAction kit or a Superior Shift Correction - either of those?

I have quite a few questions about the upcoming 46RE I am going to be rebuilding - is it alright if I ask you baxy (preferably via PM)?
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Unread 03-23-2010, 07:03 PM   #49
baxy
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yes the shim under the input shaft thrust washer is used for endplay they are available in .015" or .025"
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Unread 03-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #50
jlipka98zj
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So you measured the endplay before you even took the pump off during disassembly? And you discovered that your end play was excessive and determined that the 0.015" shim would bring it back into the acceptable range? You said that you wound up with like 0.005" endplay - does that mean that when you measured it prior to disassembly, you had 0.020" of endplay (0.005" final + 0.015" shim)? Just trying to make sure. Sounds like that's an important one when I rebuild mine.

The other measurement I saw was the clearance on the OD brake clutch. You put an extra steel on top and then set the piston (with shim) on top of the clutch pack. You then pressed down on it and "wiggled" one of the steels? Is that correct? You then adjust your shim to get to this "slight wiggle" if that's not what you have? You said the extra steel is 0.080", so that is the total clearance you are looking for - correct?

Lastly, what's your opinion on the Alto Red Eagle power packs? They make a 7-clutch direct pack (need 4-clutch drum), as well as a 5-clutch forward pack and a 7-clutch OD brake pack. I think I saw a 10-clutch version for the OD direct pack, as well. It's all very confusing. I am building up the 5.9 in my Jeep and the tranny is going on 140k miles. I may do a pre-emptive rebuild on it.

Oh, and you still didn't mention what shift kit you used - are you trying to keep it a secret???
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Unread 03-24-2010, 12:14 PM   #51
KJK
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Baxy, this is one awesome tutorial! I would totally feel confident rebuilding my 46re with this.


How come this isn't stickied?!!!
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Unread 03-24-2010, 05:23 PM   #52
baxy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlipka98zj View Post
So you measured the endplay before you even took the pump off during disassembly? And you discovered that your end play was excessive and determined that the 0.015" shim would bring it back into the acceptable range? You said that you wound up with like 0.005" endplay - does that mean that when you measured it prior to disassembly, you had 0.020" of endplay (0.005" final + 0.015" shim)? Just trying to make sure. Sounds like that's an important one when I rebuild mine.

The other measurement I saw was the clearance on the OD brake clutch. You put an extra steel on top and then set the piston (with shim) on top of the clutch pack. You then pressed down on it and "wiggled" one of the steels? Is that correct? You then adjust your shim to get to this "slight wiggle" if that's not what you have? You said the extra steel is 0.080", so that is the total clearance you are looking for - correct?

Lastly, what's your opinion on the Alto Red Eagle power packs? They make a 7-clutch direct pack (need 4-clutch drum), as well as a 5-clutch forward pack and a 7-clutch OD brake pack. I think I saw a 10-clutch version for the OD direct pack, as well. It's all very confusing. I am building up the 5.9 in my Jeep and the tranny is going on 140k miles. I may do a pre-emptive rebuild on it.

Oh, and you still didn't mention what shift kit you used - are you trying to keep it a secret???
it is good practice to check endplay before a tear down, non the less I re check it after assemble and remove the pump and input shaft if necessary to make an adjustment , alot of rear drive chryslers are quite "loose" but if you bring down the end play the input shaft and pump rings last longer

the OD clutch clearance is right around .080" that is an aftermarket spec that we have come up with over the years

I have never used the alto packs on the chryslers the latest diesels only use 5 disc direct and they have a whole lot more power than anything a 5.9 gas will ever make, just upgrade to the 4 disc even that is over kill but I do every time I don't like the alto because they use extra thin fibers and steels to jamb them all in there but what you gain on surface area is totally shot because the thin parts can't take the heat generated when shifting , in a diesel which rarely shifts from 4th to 3rd it might be ok but not in a gas which is always in and out of 3rd gear
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Unread 03-24-2010, 05:26 PM   #53
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxy View Post
it is good practice to check endplay before a tear down, non the less I re check it after assemble and remove the pump and input shaft if necessary to make an adjustment , alot of rear drive chryslers are quite "loose" but if you bring down the end play the input shaft and pump rings last longer

the OD clutch clearance is right around .080" that is an aftermarket spec that we have come up with over the years

I have never used the alto packs on the chryslers the latest diesels only use 5 disc direct and they have a whole lot more power than anything a 5.9 gas will ever make, just upgrade to the 4 disc even that is over kill but I do every time I don't like the alto because they use extra thin fibers and steels to jamb them all in there but what you gain on surface area is totally shot because the thin parts can't take the heat generated when shifting , in a diesel which rarely shifts from 4th to 3rd it might be ok but not in a gas which is always in and out of 3rd gear
This is exactly why I decided to ask. The people who build these transmissions know what you need to upgrade and what you don't.

SHIFT KIT???
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Unread 03-30-2010, 05:24 PM   #54
cpcdaddy
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Baxy, wonderful writeup.

I have had my 46re torn apart for awile now. I feel as though I have learned alot about it, and your post tought me alot more. I sure appreciate the help you've already provided and hope you can help one more time.

I noticed you had 10 frictions you installed in the od direct clutch instead of 8, which is what i want to do. Can I just add more steels and frictions or is there a different pressure plate that makes this possible? I am sure there are others who either missed this info, or who wonder the same question. thanks a bunch!
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Unread 03-30-2010, 05:31 PM   #55
cpcdaddy
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Baxy I meant direct clutch, not od direct.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 05:32 PM   #56
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcdaddy View Post
Baxy, wonderful writeup.

I have had my 46re torn apart for awile now. I feel as though I have learned alot about it, and your post tought me alot more. I sure appreciate the help you've already provided and hope you can help one more time.

I noticed you had 10 frictions you installed in the od direct clutch instead of 8, which is what i want to do. Can I just add more steels and frictions or is there a different pressure plate that makes this possible? I am sure there are others who either missed this info, or who wonder the same question. thanks a bunch!
I am one of those guys who is also wondering. From my research, you use the same size steels and frictions, but you need a special backing plate. This backing plate is available separately from PATC for $29 (P/N #BP). From what I can tell, this is the backing plate out of a 618/47RE/48RE tranny. This allows the use of 10 double-sided or 23 single-sided frictions.

Alto and every other catalog I've looked at only lists one thickness friction and steel for the OD direct clutch so I am guessing you just add 2 more of each. Baxy, if I'm wrong, please correct me.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 05:37 PM   #57
jlipka98zj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcdaddy View Post
Baxy I meant direct clutch, not od direct.
If this is the case then ignore my response.

They made 3 different size drums for the TFOD family of transmissions - 3-, 4-, and 5-plate versions. The stock 46RE in your jeep should be of the 3-plate variety. After talking to baxy via PM, it seems that *SOME* 3-plate drums can be modified to accept 4 plates using a thinner backing plate, while some cannot. He did not know the part number of the backing plate. A better idea would be to just buy a 4-clutch drum for $65 and be done with it, no special backing plate required.

You have me somewhat confused now because you're talking about 8 and 10 clutches, which *MUST* be the OD direct clutch. Here's what you probably have in your stock 46RE, moving from front to rear of the tranny:

Direct (Front) Clutch - 3 plates
Forward (Rear) Clutch - 4 plates
OD Brake Clutch - 4 plates (upgraded to 5 with 2 extra steels and 1 friction)
OD Direct Clutch - 8 plates (can upgrade to 10 with special backing plate)

Note, Alto also makes PowerPacks for 3 of the 4 clutch packs. They make a 6-clutch direct pack (requires thinner backing plate), 5-clutch forward pack, and a 7-clutch OD brake pack (requires thinner backing plate). In general, these will use thinner plates, which baxy expressed concern with. For example, the direct pack just uses clutches from the forward clutch, which are 0.061" thick instead of 0.085". The general consensus that I seem to be getting is that unless you are putting 500+ horsepower through the tranny, upgrading the direct clutch and OD brake clutch is about all you need to do.
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Unread 03-30-2010, 09:02 PM   #58
baxy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcdaddy View Post
Baxy, wonderful writeup.

I have had my 46re torn apart for awile now. I feel as though I have learned alot about it, and your post tought me alot more. I sure appreciate the help you've already provided and hope you can help one more time.

I noticed you had 10 frictions you installed in the od direct clutch instead of 8, which is what i want to do. Can I just add more steels and frictions or is there a different pressure plate that makes this possible? I am sure there are others who either missed this info, or who wonder the same question. thanks a bunch!
the drum that the clutches fit in has a different snap ring location and the pressure plate that is under the snap ring is a bit thinner

diesels are even thinner and use thinner steels to get more frictions in there

I have been meaning to measure the stack up height of the different setups but just havent had time

I'm not sure if that is an upgrade that is necessary since I have never seen one burned up , that spring puts almost 1000lbs of pressure on those plates
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Unread 03-30-2010, 09:06 PM   #59
baxy
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very few V8 full size dodge pickups use the 4 disc front clutch
most have the 4 disc drum installed but use a very thick pressure plae to make it into a 3 disc I usually relpace these with a 4 disc pressure plate and voila it is a 4 disc also you can install a 4 disc 46RH or A-727 front drum you just need to use the thin rear clutch steels in these drums (only RE transmissions use the thicker steels in the front drum)
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Unread 03-30-2010, 09:09 PM   #60
rustynail
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Amazing write up baxy!
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