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Unread 10-29-2010, 03:30 AM   #1
mikesimbo
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1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Posts: 17
3rd brake light / Lamp Outage Module issues. UPDATE + PICS

UPDATE:

Ok, so you may have seen my other 3rd brake light post, and thought I'd ask new questions here as it seems like a different issue - so here's what I've found - it's quite strange / interesting!

The bulbs DO work in the third brake light, but ONLY if I don't have the Lamp Outage Module (LOM) in place (i.e. just connect the two connectors that go to the LOM together) However, I get the VIC lamp out warning when the LOM is removed.

If the LOM is connected, I don't get the VIC message, but the third brake light doesn't worl (bulbs don't light up.) This is because they get no power - the LOM output where the dark green / white wire that goes to the third brake light connects has NOTHING to connect to it in the LOM - so thats why theres no power - but why would this be? has a previous owner replaced the LOM? What colour should it be from a 1996 ZJ? Mines orange.

PIC1 - you can clearly see when the two connectors are connected together, the dark green/white wire (3rd brake light power wire) connects to the tan/white tracer (brake/stop light) wire.


PIC2 - you can see in the place where the dark green/white tracer (3rd brake light power) wire would connect to the Lamp Outage Module there is no pin for it to connect to in the outage module connector - this is because there are no connections inside the LOM for it whatsoever! Does this mean this LOM is from a different vehicle that didnt have a 3rd brake light?!


Could I short the two wires that should be connected together, whilst connected to the LOM or will I get the VIC beep and message? Or could I short the LOM power feed to VIC output feed so the VIC shouldn't 'see' a rear bulb failure, then just connect the two looms together and remove the LOM?


Finally, even if the third light did work, you wouldnt be able to see it as someone has installed a completely blacked out bulb housing : see PIC3: why would that be!?


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Unread 10-29-2010, 06:44 AM   #2
Marcos
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Is it possible to open the LOM to see if that one terminal got pushed back, perhaps?
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Unread 10-29-2010, 08:07 AM   #3
mikesimbo
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1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Posts: 17
I have opened the LOM - there are no physical connections whatsoever for that pin! I was wondering if it's because in Europe apparently the 3rd brake light wasn't mandatory until 1998, so that might be why the LOM has been modified, and also might explain why the 3rd brake light housing is blacked out like a dummy unit!? Any thoughts?
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Unread 10-29-2010, 09:22 AM   #4
euroboy
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The 3rd brake light on my 96ZJ doesnt work either (UK model)

Took it to pieces last week and there were no bulbs and it looked like some other components were missing too.

Conclusion:

Dont need it, so dont worry.

ETA:

The VIC doesnt give any bulb warnings either, so im guessing this is how its meant to be....?
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Unread 10-29-2010, 10:00 AM   #5
mikesimbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
The 3rd brake light on my 96ZJ doesnt work either (UK model)

Took it to pieces last week and there were no bulbs and it looked like some other components were missing too.

Conclusion:

Dont need it, so dont worry.

ETA:

The VIC doesnt give any bulb warnings either, so im guessing this is how its meant to be....?
So does yours pass it's MOT with just the two standard low level brake lights too then on your UK model? Thanks for this!
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Unread 10-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #6
euroboy
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Yup, no problems at all.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 01:45 PM   #7
rolandp
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1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesimbo View Post
UPDATE:

Ok, so you may have seen my other 3rd brake light post, and thought I'd ask new questions here as it seems like a different issue - so here's what I've found - it's quite strange / interesting!

The bulbs DO work in the third brake light, but ONLY if I don't have the Lamp Outage Module (LOM) in place (i.e. just connect the two connectors that go to the LOM together) However, I get the VIC lamp out warning when the LOM is removed.

If the LOM is connected, I don't get the VIC message, but the third brake light doesn't worl (bulbs don't light up.) This is because they get no power - the LOM output where the dark green / white wire that goes to the third brake light connects has NOTHING to connect to it in the LOM - so thats why theres no power - but why would this be? has a previous owner replaced the LOM? What colour should it be from a 1996 ZJ? Mines orange.

PIC1 - you can clearly see when the two connectors are connected together, the dark green/white wire (3rd brake light power wire) connects to the tan/white tracer (brake/stop light) wire.


PIC2 - you can see in the place where the dark green/white tracer (3rd brake light power) wire would connect to the Lamp Outage Module there is no pin for it to connect to in the outage module connector - this is because there are no connections inside the LOM for it whatsoever! Does this mean this LOM is from a different vehicle that didnt have a 3rd brake light?!


Could I short the two wires that should be connected together, whilst connected to the LOM or will I get the VIC beep and message? Or could I short the LOM power feed to VIC output feed so the VIC shouldn't 'see' a rear bulb failure, then just connect the two looms together and remove the LOM?


Finally, even if the third light did work, you wouldnt be able to see it as someone has installed a completely blacked out bulb housing : see PIC3: why would that be!?
Thank you very much for information.

I also have a Grand Cherokee 1996 Norwegian registered, it took me 15 years before I realized my high mounted break light didn't work.

Took down the panel and found that stupid dummy unit with wiring hanging loose. So I bought a LED unit on E'bay, only to find out that there was no power on the leads.

By coincidence I found your posting here about the LOM, and of course there lies the problem. First I thought about buying a LOM on E'bay, then I realized it probably won't work since there is slightly different bulbs and wiring on the European models. So I can either bypass the LOM completely and live with the continuous beep, beep, rear lamp failure. Or I can jump the leads to the HMBL, then it will work but I will not get rear lamp failure notification if it fails, I think I can live happily with that.

The reason I really want to have that extra break light is that I recently had a bastard slamming my arse when I had to break, going into a roundabout. Cost his insurance £2,000 to repair and a lot of hassle for me. A HMBL probably wouldn't have saved me there since the SOF was busy talking on the mobile phone but still
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Unread 05-09-2013, 08:50 AM   #8
Schem
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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What an old thread, but still not finished.
I've bought the 3rd brake light, too AND LOM from another ZJ. My original LOM doesn't give a power to the 3rd brake light wire, that's why I've bought a set.
The new one does, 3rd light works, no VIC warning.
UNLESS I turn on the lights. Then, I get warning, but 3rd light works fine.
I found out, that fog light doesn't work, then.
There's no power going out of LOM, what gives the info about rear lamp failure, which is right, as the fog light doesn't work.
So, original LOM -> 3rd brake light doesn't work.
LOM from the car with 3rd light -> 3rd brake light works all the time, fog light doeasn't, VIC "rear lamp failure" message pops up when lights on.

Any suggestions how to fix it (buy a headlamps switch from the car with 3rd lamp? is there a difference?)?
The last thing is to mount LED bulbs for a 3rd lamp, or just connect the wires for the 3rd light outside the LOM.
But maybe there's another solution?
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Unread 05-09-2013, 10:09 AM   #9
KoreaZJ
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Your front fog lamps don't work? Or do you have ZG style rear fog lamps?
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Unread 05-17-2013, 12:25 AM   #10
Schem
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Posts: 19
one rear fog light on the left side. And this one doesn't work. I don't have front fog lights.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 02:30 AM   #11
Schem
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Krakow, Poland
Posts: 19
some update after getting LOM from the 3rd brake light version

Seems US versions have 3rd brake light, but no rear fog light, EU versions have rear fog light, but no 3rd brake.
If we'd like to have both, we need EU version and a wire between 3rd brake light and the others. So when brake is pressed, 3rd light gets the power on short, from other two lamps, excluding LOM.

Anyone's got an info which pin in the plug-in refers to what signal/light?
I'll try to connect the proper cables, or make another path inside the LOM.

The only question is the warning message on the VIC, as 3rd light will change the electrical resistance of the bulbs set in this option. I mean ECU/VIC somehow knows if the bulb is broken - power consumption/circuit break?
But first, I'd need to find which cable is which, or see some diagram.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 07:42 AM   #12
LeeZJ
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1996 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London, England
Posts: 87
I also was thinking about rectifying this my jeep, it might not be needed but as its all there it may as well be working.

Was thinking of buying LED brake light bulbs and soldering the 3rd brake light wire into the standard brake light loom as 5 LED bulbs shouldn't draw any more power than 2 standard bulbs (?) that was my thinking anyway..

Lee
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