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Unread 10-21-2006, 05:54 PM   #1
MatrixRooster
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1998 5.2l Water pump...

How hard is this to change?? I changed my radiator about a month ago, and it's run fine. However, yesterday, antifreeze started gushing out from the engine area (too hot to tell where exactly at the time). Went out today and looked at..



When I remove the radiator cap, it starts dripping a steady stream till I put the cap back on (than it stops). Seems to be coming from the center bottom belt area, but because I see an intake our outtake on the center spindel (the one with the fan attached to it), I'm honestly not sure which it is. Entirely possible it could be dripping from the second spindle up from the bottom and just dripping on and around teh bottom one making it look like it's what's leaking. Will probably tear it apart tonight, but I was wondering if:



1. Anyone had a diagram of the motor/pumps, everything on the serpentine belt, and where they are (all I truly know is AC pump sits on the top right)

2. Am I gonna have to remove the radiator to get the pump on/off?? Hoping not, since like I said, just went through that a month ago, lol..

3. Also, called store about a replacement.. There is a bolt on pulley and a pressed on pulley option.. This is easy to tell how? (I know what you're thinking, one will have bolts, but if the pulley is on, and it's mounted to the Jeep, I cannot see whether there's bolts behind the pulley, lol).


Thanks for your time as always..



Rooster



PS: Also curious if I should go ahead and replace anything else before it goes, and what would be recommended.. Jeep has 140k miles on it, and like to keep on driving her daily, but these little mishaps are starting to cause some scare.. Might bring it in the house and snap some pics to help matters out..

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Unread 10-21-2006, 06:22 PM   #2
driabyor
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there is a is a small hole on the bottom of the water pump.. near the shaft,when the seals fails thats where the water comes from...
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Unread 10-21-2006, 08:33 PM   #3
MatrixRooster
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Is the pump the item with a pulley on the very bottom, or the second from bottom (with fan attached?)

Bottom one looks to be inline with the oil pan, the second one up well, looks like it has the engine shaft coming from it since that's where the fan is.. Both of these as center (as far as left/right) of the engine.
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Unread 10-21-2006, 08:35 PM   #4
driabyor
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the one with the fan...
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Unread 10-21-2006, 08:38 PM   #5
Wookie06
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Sounds like your pump. It's a straight forward job but a pain in the ***. You'll have to get the fan and shroud out of there. Unbolt the pump and probably have to loosen the alternator and AC bracket on top to get at the hose on top of the water pump. It's been awhile since I did mine and it took me the better part of the day to do it but I could probably get it done a bit faster now.
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Unread 10-21-2006, 11:19 PM   #6
MatrixRooster
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Cool, thanks!

Any recommendations on other parts to replace.. IE, while it's torn apart, should I consider replacing anything else, like the alternator?

Only reason I ask, is.. On my Old's, while something goes wrong, it's fairly rare for multiple things to fail even semi-close. But on a 3000GT I had, the forums were full of parts, that I kid you not, if one goes, you literally are best off to replace others. There was like a $2,000.00 list of stuff at, I don't remember, maybe 80,000 miles that they all warned you replace, or you'll basically be sorry.. Very different than the Old's world..

Just kind of wondering where the Jeep will fit in. I don't hit the forums as much as I did back then to read up as much as I'd like. Like I said, it's at 140k miles right now. It has a small amount of rust on the nerf bars that I need to tend to someday (unsure how to) and no rear wiper at the moment, but other than that it's as good as new. Looks great, drives great, and I have no intention of parting with it. Think just doing the water pump will be fine? Or.....

Thanks as always,

Rooster
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Unread 10-22-2006, 05:27 AM   #7
Turbonut
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A couple of items:

Yes, the radiator must come out as stated above. Some have done it with the radiator not removed, but it sure doesn't give you much room to work.

Put a piece of cardboard overt the radiator to protect it from the removal and installation of the fan/shroud.

Replace the bypass hose while it's apart, unless it's been replaced recently. A pain removing the accessory bracket, but well worth the trouble. Same with the thermostat and hoses if old. The A/C compressor just gets unbolted, not removed.

Replace the serpentine belt if it has been contaminated with antifreeze. You'll never get the squeak out.

Check out the idler pulley also for any looseness or roughness.
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Unread 10-22-2006, 08:32 AM   #8
j.love
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You shouldn't need to remove the radiator to remove the water pump. You have plenty of clearance in there to work when you get the fan off and remove the shroud. The cardboard idea is good advice and have seen alot of guys use it. You can just tape a piece on the fins itself so it dosent get in your way.

One of the chalenging parts is to get the fan off of the water pump.This should be one of the first things you should do is to see if you can get the bolt loose. If this is your only transportation you need to work this out before draining the system and getting our self in trouble! They do make a tool for this ( spanner wrench ) but most of the time it isnt nessisary. Should be able to rent it from one of your parts stores. Inbetween the fan and the pump there is a large nut. find a open end wrench for that ( chanel locks or vice grips will do). then you need to keep the belt pully from moving. You'll need some grunt work on this. Find a way you can apply leverage to the pully to stop it from rotating. You can also "pinch" the belt around the pully. Or you could remove the belt an use a strap wrench on it.

once you get that done you can remove the fan and shroud and get to work! You do need to remove the altinator and ac compressor, For the compressor, dont disconect any of the hoses to it. You can unbolt it and lift it out of the way and set it on top of the manifold. and dont forget to remove your batery terminals before the altinator.





.
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Unread 10-22-2006, 06:24 PM   #9
MatrixRooster
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Alrighty.. Tried getting fan nut off, and was failing. AutoZ wanted $70 for the fan pulley toolset, which was just too much. So I filed down an old really long screwdriver on a grinder and stuck it in one of the holes and banged it with a hammer while holding the fan nut in place (with vicegrips, due to their nature to cling making things easier!), and viola! It came right off! (yeah!!)

Removed the 5 or 6 AC screws, but because of the metal lines, there isn't much play to actually move it anywhere.

Alternator, got the bolts removed to it, but does it need to come off?

Having problems getting the upper clamped hose off (I am guessing that's why someone suggested removing the entire accessory bracket setup). There any way other than that to do it or should I start tearing things out, lol..

Also having a problem figuring out the steel hosing that comes "out" of the right side of the water pump. New pump looks identical, but there is no threading in the hole or anything. Undid one bolt underneath the AC which seemed to be a bracket for that metal line, thinking it was holding the line in place somehow. But it didn't make anything move any easier.. There a trick to that line?

Really appreciate the help fellas.

Turbonut (or anyone).. That bypass hose is the smaller one up on top of the water pump I'm assuming? Funny because I wasn't going to do that, but seeing the joy in getting to it, I think I'm going to now, lol.. Also where is the thermostat on this beast? Might's well do that with it all torn apart.. It hasn't failed me yet (keeps it at exactly 210 in hot AZ weather!), but again, no fun in getting to all this again any time soon!

So to recap, just need a little advice on how to get the upper rubber hose and right steel hose out, whether to leave alt in place or totally remove, and same q with the accessory 'mounting' bracket.. (sorry for my unprofessional terminology).

Thanks,

Rooster
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Unread 10-22-2006, 06:54 PM   #10
Turbonut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixRooster

Removed the 5 or 6 AC screws, but because of the metal lines, there isn't much play to actually move it anywhere.

Alternator, got the bolts removed to it, but does it need to come off?

Having problems getting the upper clamped hose off (I am guessing that's why someone suggested removing the entire accessory bracket setup). There any way other than that to do it or should I start tearing things out, lol..

Also having a problem figuring out the steel hosing that comes "out" of the right side of the water pump. New pump looks identical, but there is no threading in the hole or anything. Undid one bolt underneath the AC which seemed to be a bracket for that metal line, thinking it was holding the line in place somehow. But it didn't make anything move any easier.. There a trick to that line?

Really appreciate the help fellas.

Turbonut (or anyone).. That bypass hose is the smaller one up on top of the water pump I'm assuming? Funny because I wasn't going to do that, but seeing the joy in getting to it, I think I'm going to now, lol.. Also where is the thermostat on this beast? Might's well do that with it all torn apart.. It hasn't failed me yet (keeps it at exactly 210 in hot AZ weather!), but again, no fun in getting to all this again any time soon!

So to recap, just need a little advice on how to get the upper rubber hose and right steel hose out, whether to leave alt in place or totally remove, and same q with the accessory 'mounting' bracket.. (sorry for my unprofessional terminology).

Thanks,

Rooster
Leave the A/C compressor in place. The large accessory bracket will slide out from under the unit. You'll need to remove the PS pump also. I believe bolts are accessed through the pulley holes.

See if the alt will swing to the side after removing it from the bracket.
The steel tube pulls out from the water pump. There should be a new O ring in with the new pump. It's tough to get in place. Put the O ring on the tube and install after a little silicone placed on the O ring. Push hard!

That's the bypass hose you've found, and the thermostat is under the housing the upper hose is clamped around. I believe 2 bolts to remove.

It's been a while since I've done one, so hope my memory is good.

Good luck
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Unread 10-22-2006, 07:10 PM   #11
SJZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixRooster
Alrighty.. Tried getting fan nut off, and was failing. AutoZ wanted $70 for the fan pulley toolset, which was just too much. So I filed down an old really long screwdriver on a grinder and stuck it in one of the holes and banged it with a hammer while holding the fan nut in place (with vicegrips, due to their nature to cling making things easier!), and viola! It came right off! (yeah!!)

Removed the 5 or 6 AC screws, but because of the metal lines, there isn't much play to actually move it anywhere.
You don't have to move it too far. Make sure you take the steel compressor lines out of the bracket on the intake manual. This should give you more room.

Quote:
Alternator, got the bolts removed to it, but does it need to come off?
You should not have to remove the wires, just place the whole thing out of the way.

Quote:
Having problems getting the upper clamped hose off (I am guessing that's why someone suggested removing the entire accessory bracket setup). There any way other than that to do it or should I start tearing things out, lol..
You'll have to finagle something, but you may have to remove the A/C bracket. Sorry, just can't recall. It should be obvious upon inspection.

Quote:
Also having a problem figuring out the steel hosing that comes "out" of the right side of the water pump. New pump looks identical, but there is no threading in the hole or anything. Undid one bolt underneath the AC which seemed to be a bracket for that metal line, thinking it was holding the line in place somehow. But it didn't make anything move any easier.. There a trick to that line?
Once the bolt holding the bracket is removed, you should be able to gently twist the tube out of the water pump. There are no threads, the tube is sealed to the pump with an O-ring, which should be supplied with the new pump. Use RTV when re-assembling. That heater tube is available thru your parts store or Jeep should you mess it up. (IIRC, it's pretty cheap, and not a bad idea to get another just in case). [/quote]

Really appreciate the help fellas.

Quote:
Turbonut (or anyone).. That bypass hose is the smaller one up on top of the water pump I'm assuming? Funny because I wasn't going to do that, but seeing the joy in getting to it, I think I'm going to now, lol.. Also where is the thermostat on this beast? Might's well do that with it all torn apart.. It hasn't failed me yet (keeps it at exactly 210 in hot AZ weather!), but again, no fun in getting to all this again any time soon!
Yes, that's the bypass hose. Follow the upper radiator hose toward the engine, and it will lead you to the thermostat housing. It is held in place with 2 bolts. Remove those bolts, and the thermostat is underneath. Clean both the housing, and the mating surface on the engine, including the "groove" where the thermostat sits. Having the alternator off makes all this easier. I recommend replacing the heater hose which is attached to a nipple right to the left of the housing as you are looking at it. This hose is molded with a bend in it.
I also recommend testing the new thermostat by placing it in a pot of water and bring it to a boil. It should open just before the water boils. Also verify that it closes when removed.
Quote:
So to recap, just need a little advice on how to get the upper rubber hose and right steel hose out, whether to leave alt in place or totally remove, and same q with the accessory 'mounting' bracket.. (sorry for my unprofessional terminology).
Study this:
http://www.netpreview.com/98zjcooling.pdf
then continue tomorrow.
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Unread 10-22-2006, 07:12 PM   #12
SJZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbonut
You'll need to remove the PS pump also. I believe bolts are accessed through the pulley holes.
I'm quite sure that you do not have to remove the P/S pump.
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"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." -Thomas Jefferson
___________________________________________
'98 ZJ Laredo 5.2 Selec-Trac (249 to 242 swap)
'05 KJ Limited 3.7 Selec-Trac
'94 ZJ Limited 5.2 Q-Trac- sold, after 17 years
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Unread 10-22-2006, 08:55 PM   #13
j.love
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Are we all talking about the same motor? 5.2 correct?

if we are you do need to take off the power steering pump. due to the bracket for the ac pump and the alt. bracket need to come of and there is two bolts that the power steeping pump pully blocks!





.
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94 ZJ laredo 5.9 V8 swap D44a posi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmonkey View Post
I wouldn't drive down a driveway on that.
''If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, there's still a 30% chance we're going to get it wrong.''
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Unread 10-26-2006, 05:32 PM   #14
MatrixRooster
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Yes indeed.. You were in fact dead on the money..

In order to get the accessories top bracket off, you MUST remove the poswer steering pump as well, because behind it is at least one bolt you absolutely cannot get to (I was able to unscrew, but not remove the upper bolt, but there was no way the lower one was going anywhere without the PSP removed, due to it hitting the pulley.

Progressing slowly on this (man can't believe how many pages back this topic was already - we GJC's sure post alot!!). Got everything torn apart, going to store tomorrow to pick up thermostat, that upper hose from the water pump, and a new belt (already have the new pump).

Following that there will be the rantings of, "Man I hope I can put this back together like the guys at the plant did originally!", lol.. Hate having extra bolts or bolts too long for a particular hole..

After doing this, giving serious thought to tackling one of the last 2 issues with the Jeep.. Torn CV boot, passenger side. Can't possibly be more difficult than this job, lol.. After that, only issue it would have is the shot, non-existant pass. rear ebrake and speed sensor, both which were destroyed when the ebrake decided to come loose/break just a little over a year ago, destroying the entire ebrake innards and the speed sensor. You'll see posts about those I'm sure..

Again though, I sersiouly want to thank everyone who helped me with all the suggestions and help etc. You guys are my life support team, I couldn't have done this without ya. I can only hope that I'm on some forum somewhere where my extertise (obviously not on this forum, lol) will help you out in return someday. You are all very good people
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Unread 10-28-2006, 02:03 PM   #15
MatrixRooster
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Ok - Got a question again

I'm noticing as I scrape off the old gasket material.. There are two 'pockets' in the engine body where the water pump goes, one a small triangle shape, the other a longer, skinnier one that runs upwards on the left half.. That particular one, I'm noticing seems to have a small amount of some kind of grease in it, just at the bottom.

Should I grease up that, or any areas prior to putting the water pump on?

Other than the regular mechanics of putting things back on in reverse order I removed them from, any tips / things I should do? I'm gonna put some RTV lightly over both sides of the water pump gasket, on the thermostat gasket, and and that line, as recommended, that 'sits' in the right side of the pump. (still baffles me that it doesn't make any solid connection via nut/screw, anthing).. Sound like a solid plan or am I missing something?

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