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-   -   YJ will not turn off (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/yj-will-not-turn-off-1556325/)

squarebeams 07-31-2013 07:34 PM

YJ will not turn off
 
Hi all,
I am new to the forum but not jeeps, and am hoping someone can help with my issue. My 89 yj starts and runs awesome but will not shut off. It was intermittent at first but now happens all the time. I have to stall it out and disconnect the battery. In the begining I could mess with the cylinder and it would shut off but now it never shuts off. It has now been like 5 months and I no longer find it amusing. I finally tore apart the column and replaced the ignition cylinder. no good, same thing. Most people have issues with things not running, so I have found very little about it on line... has anybody experienced this or have any idea what the issue could be. Please help as I am not reassembling my baby until the problem is solved.
Thanks in advance,
Kyle :(

superj 07-31-2013 08:08 PM

put a kill switch in the power wire to the coil. that will kill it when you flip the switch off

jbrown73 07-31-2013 08:35 PM

Sounds to me like a trip through the wiring schematics is in order with a handy multimeter & trace out the circuit that kills power to the coil....if you want it back to original condition. I've heard of your condition before but cannot recall what wire was determined to be at fault. I'll look through my manuals tomorrow & post a suggestion if you haven't figured it out by then!

Rproject 07-31-2013 08:54 PM

I just got done playing with my starter solenoid earlier this week and learned quite a bit about the starting system when I did it. Here's a few places to start looking. Not solutions, but potential directions to look.

1. Starter solenoid ignition wire. It's on the top of the starter solenoid and the wire loom has a tendency to lay across it if not properly secured. Over time the loom will wear the wire down creating a short that could cause the vehicle either A: not start, or B: not turn off

2. The bulk head. The ignition wire is right next to a constant hot where the bulk head crosses the firewall (driver's side up high). The terminals can corrode and cause a short across these two connections. This was as recall or a TSB back in the day. Reports were that the Jeep would start on its own, and if a stick and in gear, potentially drive on its own as well!!!
-- Pull the bulkhead connectors, clean the terminals and reseal with dielectric grease.

Mark05059 08-01-2013 03:31 AM

ground the alternator case to the battery ground post (you can use a set of jumper cables as a temp check) and see if it shuts off normally.

squarebeams 08-06-2013 11:57 AM

back at it...
 
thanks for the responses but nothing so far has worked. It really seems to feel like a switching issue. Does anybody know what the little black post that sticks out of the inside end of the ignition cylinder is? it seems to pop out in the off position. is that the kill? if so where does it go to? it seems that there is some sort of contact inside the column that it would hit but I do not know where that would even go? It seems so simple yet so complicated. lol

Oh! I failed to mention that even after I stall it out with it turned off, the power is still on in the rest of the truck, so I do not think a simple kill to the coil will work for that reason :(

Can I just install a marine Perko switch some how to kill everything? I do not care about it being back to original. It gets used hard.

Rproject 08-06-2013 12:00 PM

Can you post up a picture of what you're talking about with the ignition cylinder? If it's what I'm thinking it is, it MAY be the root of your problem, but without a picture, I don't want to lead you down a path of ill repute.

squarebeams 08-06-2013 12:49 PM

pic of the contact
 
1 Attachment(s)
THIS IS NOT MY TRUCK! Just a pic to show the contact... They are the 2 copper contacts by the red circle. they go into the plastic square piece that slides beneath the cylinder. Thanks for your help!!!

remmons 08-06-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squarebeams (Post 15741869)
In the begining I could mess with the cylinder and it would shut off but now it never shuts off. It has now been like 5 months and I no longer find it amusing. I finally tore apart the column and replaced the ignition cylinder. no good, same thing.:(

The Jeep YJ used the GM column up until 1990. I see that you had replaced the IGN cylinder, but not the IGN switch. The ign cylinder has nothing to do with starting other than actuating a rod that connects to the IGN switch that is mounted to the TOP RIGHT of the steering column.

Just for the fun of it, disconnect the Alternator feed and start your Jeep so that it is ONLY running on battery power, then turn it off. If it does kill the Jeep, then the problem is inside the alternator or regulator diode. If it does not, then at least you know what isn't the issue. Sometimes diodes weld together thus creating a continuity. These diodes prevent electrical feedback from occuring and to prevent engine run-on.

Rproject 08-06-2013 01:08 PM

OK, so the key you're using for your rig is not the correct key. It appears to be the double sided, plastic head, Chrysler key used on later vehicles. As remmons said above, the YJ used the GM style column. You may very well not have the proper cylinder installed in the Jeep. Why do I say this? Because the two copper contacts in the column cover a screw. That screw retains your cylinder. You should not be able to remove the cylinder with that screw installed. That would indicate to me that you have the wrong cylinder in your column. The back of the cylinders come in many, many, many configurations based upon year and column style (straight - tilt - telescoping). The incorrect cylinder may physically fit in the column, but it won't line up correctly with the internal components of the column thus making, or not making, the correct connections to the locking pin, ignition switch and shift lock.

jbrown73 08-06-2013 01:12 PM

^This

On a side note, your speedo has a 160+ mph marking........daaaaaaaaaaamn!!! Could you imagine going 160 mph in a jeep?!

squarebeams 08-06-2013 01:29 PM

pic
 
The pic is not of my truck. I just found an image to show the contact which is exactly the same. The cylinder is correct, and I did remove the screw in order to remove the cylinder. And lol I can not imagine 160 mph in my jeep but I HAVE done 147 mph in my F250 diesel with 35" M/T's on it. I will say that it wasnt smart and that I think I almost died. I had no idea I did it until I checked my top speed in my GPS as the speedo in that truck only goes up to 100 or so... and I was wondering wht it got a little squirrly. haha

Rproject 08-06-2013 01:33 PM

OK, seriously, the pic led us down a path and now you're saying that it's not even a pic of your vehicle?!?!?!?!? Come on, at least show us what YOUR column looks like. What you think may be wrong, or right, may be the complete opposite in the eyes of someone who's seen 100's of steering columns in their life.

squarebeams 08-06-2013 01:35 PM

I was just asking about the CONTACT. I wasnt asking anybody to go down any paths of whether I had the correct key or cylinder. No worries Thanks for your help anyway.

remmons 08-06-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squarebeams (Post 15763109)
thanks for the responses but nothing so far has worked. It really seems to feel like a switching issue. Does anybody know what the little black post that sticks out of the inside end of the ignition cylinder is? it seems to pop out in the off position. is that the kill? if so where does it go to? it seems that there is some sort of contact inside the column that it would hit but I do not know where that would even go? It seems so simple yet so complicated. lol

Oh! I failed to mention that even after I stall it out with it turned off, the power is still on in the rest of the truck, so I do not think a simple kill to the coil will work for that reason :(

Can I just install a marine Perko switch some how to kill everything? I do not care about it being back to original. It gets used hard.

The only pins or studs that pop up when you turn the ignition lock cylinder off are the steering wheel lock pin that engages into the steering wheel lock plate, the pin that pops up to prevent the IGN lock cylinder from being removed without a key (but it is installed directly on the lock cylinder), and the pin that pops up to sound the Key Warning Buzzer if the Key is left in when the door is open. They have nothing to do with the vehicle shutting down when you turn the key to the OFF position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rproject (Post 15763397)
OK, so the key you're using for your rig is not the correct key. It appears to be the double sided, plastic head, Chrysler key used on later vehicles.

Good eye Rproject, I had somehow missed that. I agree with Rproject. GM has used three different types of pins at the end of their ignition lock cylinders since their introduction in the early 70's.

So this brings to mind something. Since your IGN lock ctlinder is not locked in, go ahead and start it, pull the lock cylinder out, then slip a flat blade screw driver inside and turn it counter clock wise to see if the Jeep turns off. Look inside the Lock Cyl hole (with a flash light if need be) and you will see a notch of some kind to align the screw driver with. If it does, then you are using the wrong ignition lock cylinder. Chances are, the PO had replaced the steering column from a donor GM vehicle, thus making some parts wrong for your application.

Good luck.


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