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Unread 08-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #16
fourwheelnguy
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I will certainly give that a shot, I'm game for anything at this point.

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Unread 08-16-2013, 09:10 PM   #17
Que89YJ
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Ok. You have a no start. It needs to be narrowed down to the system. If it is a no start then it has to be air, fuel, or spark. The mechanic might have run a bunch of test but if the issue was not present when he ran them then he will not be reading it. The fuel pressure, spark, timing, or air must be at fault. Spark, pressure, and timing are easy to test for any mechanic. Get back to the basics. The first thing I want you to try is a battery reset for a 10 count immediately when the issue occurs. Check for spark and measure the fuel pressure if it is not starting. Reconnect it and try to start. Please list all the components that have been replaced. One of the other tricks it's jumping power directly to pin 87 of the asd relay. If the relay is intermittent it will give you the symptoms you describe. I have a few more ideas but this will get you going.
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Unread 08-17-2013, 05:10 PM   #18
Que89YJ
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any update?
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Unread 08-17-2013, 08:44 PM   #19
fourwheelnguy
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laybackman - When I drove the Jeep home I attached the jumper cable to the negative battery terminal and rubbed it on several pieces of the frame/ metal etc. and couldn't see any sparks. It was bright daylight out, but couldn't see anything.

Que89 - When I went to get the Jeep this morning he cranked it over but no start. Without saying anything he walked to the front of the Jeep with the hood open and I saw him press something and all of a sudden my Jeep was purring like a kitten. He had a push button starter hooked up directly to the battery and the other end down to the starter. He said he had tried this before with my old computer but to no avail, but it will work with this "new used" computer. He said he had the Jeep sitting outside yesterday and it started right up for him several times. He said he brought it inside, let it sit for a while and it wouldn't start, but hit the push button and it takes off. So today I played with it a little bit and it will start probably 8 out of 10 times right off the bat; if it doesn't you can just hit the push button and it generally fires right up???? What would cause this? Also, my wife's uncle has my fuel pressure tester. I need to get that back from him so I can have it handy.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #20
Que89YJ
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It's starting we can figure that out easy. Are you auto or manual? If auto then nss.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 03:37 PM   #21
fourwheelnguy
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It's a manual.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 05:21 PM   #22
Que89YJ
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The starter relay is getting power then and it is a control side issue. Pins 85 & 86 are control. The issue is on 85/86. I can help you figure it out of you have a meter.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #23
fourwheelnguy
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So when it doesn't start with the key, even though it turns over, you think it's just not sending some type of signal? Or am I way off here? You're speaking of just a volt meter? I'm not great with them, I usually let a buddy that is an electrician mess with that stuff, but I want/ need to learn more about how to use one and what exactly it's telling me. I've got a very busy work schedule the next two days, but I would love to hear more or study up on what I need to do.

I took the Jeep on a little trip today...did good, I did have to use the push button once though. Acted like it wanted to start, but seemed like it needed a little boost to push it on over the edge of starting. I waited a second and hit the push button and it fired right up.

Is there a meter that I should buy? Sometimes I think all of the choices on some of them are intimidating. May sound crazy, but using the volt meter just isn't something I've got a lot of practice with, so if you guys are willing to tell me what to do I'm more than happy to learn!!! Again, thanks for all of the patience and help, it is appreciated!!!
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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #24
laybackman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
The starter relay is getting power then and it is a control side issue. Pins 85 & 86 are control. The issue is on 85/86. I can help you figure it out of you have a meter.
So the trouble is in the 14 AWG brown wire leaving the relay and heads to the starter? OR is it the relay itself which the remote starter does bypass??


http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/94YJ_starter.pdf
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Unread 08-19-2013, 07:00 AM   #25
Que89YJ
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Layback is saying what I was thinking about the starter not turning over. The jumper wire the guy installed was for the starter not turning over at all correct? Are you still have the issue with no start even when the starter is working? As far as a meter goes a cheap $20.00 one from Harbor Freight or Radio Shack will work.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 10:41 AM   #26
laybackman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
Layback is saying what I was thinking about tghe starter not turning over. The jumper wire the guy installed was for the starter not turning over at all correct? Are you still have the issue with no start even when the starter is working? As far as a meter goes a cheap $20.00 one from Harbor Freight or Radio Shack will work.
That meter is a very important tool trust me.

Open up (and save) the attached pdf file I posted a link to.

I would open up my PDC and pull the starter relay.

See the brown 14 AWG wire that goes from the starter relay to the starter in that pdf file? That goes from one pin of the starter relay socket to the starter. The other side of the relay is controlled by the ignition switch. When turned to START that circuit closes the relay contacts and allows the voltage to go from the 12 AWG red wire going into the starter relay to that brown wire which fires the starter.

Keep in mind that a relay is a cheap alternative to a high amperage switch.

I would set my multi meter to continuity and then I would touch it to the brown wire at the starter and then probe each socket of the starter relay. One of them should show continuity. If you find that socket remember it.

Now get someone else to move the harness around in that area to include the whole PDC box. If you lose continuity at any time you have a broken/loose wire or a bad splice.


IIRC there is a fuse that protects that circuit also. Maybe it has corroded sockets and poor contact. Or swap out the starter relay with the horn relay. IF it doesn't give you any more trouble the relay was the problem. If the horn only works sometimes that is confirmation the relay was junk.

Corrosion is a hidden nightmare that is often ignored/forgotten.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 06:45 PM   #27
fourwheelnguy
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Que - The starter will engage every time you turn the key (knock on wood) it's not that you turn the key and nothing happens. It's more of you turn the key and Jeep almost seems flooded?? It wants to start with the key, it's just something is holding it back. When you do go to release the key from the 'start' position to the 'on' position it's sounds like it was almost started but doesn't get all the way over the start gate. (Make any sense??? Sorry if I'm having trouble putting this into writtenm words rather than voicing sounds) If it does that, and you may try another time, and it doesn't start with the key again, so far, you just hit the push button ignition and the Jeep starts. I've had one time where when it did start with the push button it almost seemed as if it were running too rich; but all other times it has ran great and smooth. So even when the Jeep doesn't start by turning the key everything is still trying, I guess...

laybackman - Thank you very much for the file... I've viewed it, but haven't had a chance to really study it yet due to work. I haven't had a chance to check out all of my wiring yet either. On my starter you have the two main posts which one of them is hooked up to the + battery terminal. The other main post doesn't have anything hooked to it, but there is the smaller gauge wire that is basically linked to, what resembles, a relay. What is that??

I very much appreciate all of your help and apologize that you've recommended action items that I've not had a chance to complete yet, but plan on it unless you guys tell me otherwise when I get a spare second.

Also, I don't have an entire list of parts that have been replaced, I haven't received my final invoice from the mechanic who had it, but he did put a new ignition in it. I know he struggled actually getting my ignition as mine what a white plastic but everything that came in or the stores had was a black plastic, but wouldn't work on mine?? Sound right?
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Unread 08-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #28
laybackman
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OK, So the starter always engages the flywheel and turn this engine over, BUT the engine doesn't always fire and run. Is that correct?

And when it doesn't turn over and run, it can often be started using a remote starter. Correct?

Last but not least BUT.....it doesn't always fire up using either method.... correct again?

If that is the case the problem doesn't seem to be in the starter portion of the ignition circuit because it always turns over...even if it does not start.

One question lingers. How come when it does not start with the key it will sometimes start with the remote starter????
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Unread 08-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #29
fourwheelnguy
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laybackman:

The only part of your statement that I would probably add to is this: I've only had one instance where I've had to hit the push button more than once. When this did happen the motor almost seemed to be flooded, or run rich etc. It just seemed a little bogged down, but it ran. (Please keep in mind; I've probably only started it 15-20 times or so since I got it back)

You hit the million dollar question on the head. Question...Will utilizing this push button mess anything up?
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Unread 08-19-2013, 09:01 PM   #30
laybackman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourwheelnguy View Post
laybackman:

The only part of your statement that I would probably add to is this: I've only had one instance where I've had to hit the push button more than once. When this did happen the motor almost seemed to be flooded, or run rich etc. It just seemed a little bogged down, but it ran. (Please keep in mind; I've probably only started it 15-20 times or so since I got it back)

You hit the million dollar question on the head. Question...Will utilizing this push button mess anything up?
No it is just bypassing the problem somehow if it always turns over but doesn't always fire up.

I wonder if the issue is the injectors not firing. Maybe the problem is somehow related to the ASD relay? But I do not know how the remote starter is effective to fire this engine up when the ignition won't do the trick? The remote starter needs the ASD relay to do it's job or it won't start no matter what.
I'm tired......going to hit the sack.
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