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post #1 of 24 Old 03-16-2017, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
Flammenfaust
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YJ clutch issue

I had my slave cylinder go out a few months back. Before this there was NO issues with the clutch or shifting. I took it to a so called "expert" off road place and had a new clutch kit (pressure plate, clutch, slave) installed. Now the pedal goes to the floor before I get any clutch and it is almost impossible to get into first or reverse. I took it back in and he told me Ineeded a master cylinder too. I shelled out another 70-80 for that and SAME issue. He says there isnt anything else that can be changed out and thats just how the clutch is. WTF it wasnt like that before the slave went out. What is missing? He said I can swap the flywheel( of course ill have to pay for the tear down labor etc....) If that dont work im out another 700 bucks. Anyone who knows what they are doing care to give me some advice.. obviously this "expert" doesnt know what he is doing.

the vehicle is a 1990 wrangler with i6 and ax15 5 speed


Last edited by Flammenfaust; 03-17-2017 at 12:02 AM. Reason: added vehicle info
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 11:54 AM
manest
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I assume that the system was bled??? Do you have the internal slave system?

'93 YJ in the middle of a V8 swap
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 12:45 PM
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I think we can assume it is an internal. That would be OEM on a '90, plus if it were an external, the shop probably would have been willing to swap it out since it is just a few minute job.

As it is, internal, he knows he has to drop the tranny again to get to it. And he may also know that you cannot buy a quality internal slave anymore, and he doesn't want to get started on what could be a never ending roller coaster.

You said "a few months ago", so what is this shops warranty. 3 months on labor is pretty common. You need to know whether this before you can consider any legal action. Either way, you need to find a different shop and have the slave cylinder replaced. Pay for it. Stay away from 4x4 shops and find a real mechanic.

What we can be assured of, is that it is NOT normal. But you already know that.

Bill
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1988 Wrangler,4.2L I-6, Howell EFI JP-1,CRT HEI Ign,AX15 ext slave conversion, Zone 2.5" lift + 1/2" booms, BFG 31 x 10.5, Bestop.
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 12:47 PM
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Incidentally, this is why converting to external slave cylinders is so popular. Something to think about.

Bill
Dodge did not build my Jeep.
1988 Wrangler,4.2L I-6, Howell EFI JP-1,CRT HEI Ign,AX15 ext slave conversion, Zone 2.5" lift + 1/2" booms, BFG 31 x 10.5, Bestop.
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 12:56 PM
87TPIYJ
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I am willing to be there is air in your clutch line. I couldn't for the life of me get my clutch bled until I made a vacuum bleeder set up. See my link on how to make it. Super simple and its all I use now when I need to bleed brakes or clutch.


http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/p...l#post15008899

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post #6 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 12:58 PM
Mr.B
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It should be an internal slave, unless it was modified. '94 was the first year for external. I'm not an expert on hydraulics, but I've read a lot of threads here about installing slaves, bleeding them wrong and destroying them. If it isn't destroyed already, bleeding again shouldn't hurt it.

It sounds to me that the flywheel is fine. Usually if the flywheel is bad, it will make the clutch slip.

I'd find a different "expert".


Edit: Three posts since I started typing and finished. Carry on.

.
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-17-2017, 02:18 PM
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I had to use a vacuum pump to bleed my S10 which are notorious for being difficult to bleed. You may want to try that. But I think you have have another issue that you probably won't be happy to hear about.

Unlike a mechanical clutch that has a lot of adjustment to work with, a hydraulic clutch will only move as far as the slave cylinder will go, which is a fixed distance. Anything outside this distance needs to be made up by placing shims under the slave cylinder before it is slid onto the output shaft. There is a specific way to measure this. If they just put the slave cylinder on without verifying the distance it may work but not fully engage the pressure plate and the result will be grinding while trying to put it in gear, most notably as you have found, in first and reverse.

If further bleeding of the clutch does not produce satisfactory results, at that point your only option is to pull the trans and do some measurements. Good luck on your project.

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post #8 of 24 Old 03-19-2017, 06:31 PM
esterelyj
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Sachs makes the only decent internal slave. STAY AWAY FROM LUK slaves. You have been warned.

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-19-2017, 06:44 PM
1991YJisLife
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REPLACE THE HYDRAULIC CLUTCH LINE WHEN REPLACING THE INTERNAL SLAVE. My belief as to why so many slaves go bad within months of replacing is bad clutch lines that are falling apart from the inside and sending debri downstream into the slave.

When I replaced my slave, I bled it with a vacuum bleeder and the Jeep acted like the clutch was bad. The reason was the clutch line had collapsed due to the pressure. I replaced it was a stainless steel line from AA adaptors.

Since most people don't use vacuum bleeders when bleeding their clutch, they cant bleed the line to the point it collapses. The line will look fine on the outside but just like the slave and master the rubber will fill after 20+ years. If you don't replace the line with the master and slave, you WILL have the slave fail again.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-20-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esterelyj View Post
Sachs makes the only decent internal slave. STAY AWAY FROM LUK slaves. You have been warned.
The forum has had excellent luck with Luk clutch kits. But take that with a grain if salt, since I bet almost all slaves will be NOS at this point. Around 8 years is the max reliable shelf life for rubber.
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-20-2017, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike134 View Post
The forum has had excellent luck with Luk clutch kits. But take that with a grain if salt, since I bet almost all slaves will be NOS at this point. Around 8 years is the max reliable shelf life for rubber.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I was caught up in some other business. Unfortunately it IS a Luk clutch they installed, they insisted that Luk was the way to go. . I noticed upon inspection that the bleeder line is loose feeling.. It just moves about like it is not tightened down. I am guessing that this might cause it to suck air, but I am not noticing any fluid leaks though. I am going to have to drop the tranny to tighten that up. Can that slave be used again, or once the straps are loose is it a goner? Any advice on "testing the clearance" that the other poster was talking about. is that a visual thing or is there a way to do it properly.

If/when I get it all back together- my mechanic skills are not great, but I cant stomach spending another grand on this clutch unless I absolutely have to. Taking it back to the moron that did the work originally isn't going to happen either, he left my jeep out in the rain with the top down last time I took it back to him. (GRRRRRR!!) I watched a couple of youtube videos (yea I know!). I will buy a floor jack and some jack stands and go to town on this sometime in the next couple of weeks if I get time.

Feel free to share any gotchas that you all think I may need to know for this job.
Thanks!

Last edited by Flammenfaust; 03-20-2017 at 07:01 PM.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-20-2017, 11:24 PM
1991YJisLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flammenfaust View Post

Sorry for the delay in responding. I was caught up in some other business. Unfortunately it IS a Luk clutch they installed, they insisted that Luk was the way to go. . I noticed upon inspection that the bleeder line is loose feeling.. It just moves about like it is not tightened down. I am guessing that this might cause it to suck air, but I am not noticing any fluid leaks though. I am going to have to drop the tranny to tighten that up. Can that slave be used again, or once the straps are loose is it a goner? Any advice on "testing the clearance" that the other poster was talking about. is that a visual thing or is there a way to do it properly.

If/when I get it all back together- my mechanic skills are not great, but I cant stomach spending another grand on this clutch unless I absolutely have to. Taking it back to the moron that did the work originally isn't going to happen either, he left my jeep out in the rain with the top down last time I took it back to him. (GRRRRRR!!) I watched a couple of youtube videos (yea I know!). I will buy a floor jack and some jack stands and go to town on this sometime in the next couple of weeks if I get time.

Feel free to share any gotchas that you all think I may need to know for this job.
Thanks!
Great thinking on doing it yourself this time! I have no trust for mechanics. The very few things I've had done by mechanics are the only problems I've had with my Jeep (trans and tires). I don't need to pay someone to mess up my Jeep when I can do it myself for free! Removing my trans to replace my slave was my first big job on my Jeep (and cars in general). I watched YouTube videos and read a lot of forums

Before dropping the transmission, buy a vacuum bleeder and rebleed the clutch. I'm betting on the mechanic doing a poor job of bleeding the clutch.

The"loose" feeling from the bleeder you mentioned is normal. It is supposed to be able to pivot.

Yes, you can put the trans back in with the same slave, but if it's bad you don't want to be reusing it. I don't remind how I did it when I had my trans out last, but I was able to do it.

If bleeding the clutch does not solve your problem then it's one of the 3 hydraulic clutch componets: master cylinder, slave cylinder and the hydraulic clutch line. Try pumping up the clutch before changing gears. If it doesn't grind, it could be a bad master cylinder or needs better bleeding. Usually when the slave goes bad it'll leak pretty good

As for clutch adjustment, there is no way to adjust the clutch throw. Once the transmission is removed, it's literally a 5 min job to swap the old slave with a new one. There is no "checking the clearance" on these and no adjusting the slave of any way. It would be pretty hard to screw up installing the new slave on the transmission. It is very easy to do a bad job bleeding the new slave cylinder

One last thing is to check your transmission fluid. It could be low or needing changing. Bad/low fluid will result in hard shifting
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-21-2017, 08:15 AM
manest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1991YJisLife View Post
One last thing is to check your transmission fluid. It could be low or needing changing. Bad/low fluid will result in hard shifting
Also if you add fluid or change it out, DO NOT use GL-5. The AX-15 and AX-5 take GL-3, GL-4, or you can even use 10W30.

'93 YJ in the middle of a V8 swap
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-21-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manest View Post

Also if you add fluid or change it out, DO NOT use GL-5. The AX-15 and AX-5 take GL-3, GL-4, or you can even use 10W30.
Good catch. 10w30 synthetic or redline fluid is personally what I found to be the best. Regular 10w30 is ok but doesn't seem to last very long (I would only use if you have a bad transmission leak). Don't even consider royal purple, biggest waste of $90 I ever spent
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-21-2017, 08:27 AM
buffgun
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If he went by the chiltons manual it says to cut the straps on the slave cylinder when your supposed to leave them on and they snap off on the first push of the pedal when you bleed it ! Cutting the straps allow it to overtravel !
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