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Unread 01-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #1
rockcop
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Weber 32/36 choke issue

Extremely hard start when cold. If the air temp is warm it starts easy. I have to say
I'm clueless with carbs. The single wire connected to the side has constant power. I checked it with a teat light. The flaps on the top do not close unless I do it manually. When I do, it starts faster but it still seems to be long. I think I burned up my starter today because of this issue. Are there adjustments that can be made to correct this issue? Thanks for the help.

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Unread 01-02-2012, 07:48 PM   #2
mcmud
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Loosen the three retaining ring screws which keep the bi-metal cup (the plastic cup that the wire connects onto) in position. Rotate the cup counterclockwise, as if you're looking to it from across the valve cover, until the choke plates are all but closed ... they will stop at a preset location, then add at least 1/8 or up to 1/4 more turn to it. Re-tighten the retaining ring screws.

The plates should snap completely closed as you cycle the throttle and then gradually open as the bi-metal cup temp increases.

Once the plates are more or less set to spec the fast idle screw should come into play. It is a brass slotted screw and will be found between the choke assembly and the carb body as viewed from the front of the engine.

Adjust both the bi-metal spring tension (length of time of its involvement,CCW more time CW less) and the fast idle speed (warm up engine RPM) to suit... 1350 to 1700 is recommended.
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Unread 01-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #3
Old4X
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You can't easily flood a stone cold engine in frigid temps. Don't be afraid to floorboard the throttle 5 or 6 times before you hit the starter. This will squirt some raw gas into the intake from the accelerator pump to aid starting (even with the choke working, it is recommended when below freezing).
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:01 PM   #4
rockcop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmud
Loosen the three retaining ring screws which keep the bi-metal cup (the plastic cup that the wire connects onto) in position. Rotate the cup counterclockwise, as if you're looking to it from across the valve cover, until the choke plates are all but closed ... they will stop at a preset location, then add at least 1/8 or up to 1/4 more turn to it. Re-tighten the retaining ring screws.

The plates should snap completely closed as you cycle the throttle and then gradually open as the bi-metal cup temp increases.

Once the plates are more or less set to spec the fast idle screw should come into play. It is a brass slotted screw and will be found between the choke assembly and the carb body as viewed from the front of the engine.

Adjust both the bi-metal spring tension (length of time of its involvement,CCW more time CW less) and the fast idle speed (warm up engine RPM) to suit... 1350 to 1700 is recommended.
I adjusted the choke spring this afternoon. It now idles very low until the engine warms up. When it does warm up it idles around 13k-14k. Is the fast idle speed adjustment the screw with the spring. Is this what controls the idle when the engine is cold. Also when I shut the engine down after a test drive it acted like it didn't want to shut down. One more issue. On my test drive with a cold engine, the jeep cut out or lost power. Like it lost fuel. It never jerked or appeared to bog. It felt like the engine shut down but it didn't. If I sound like a Bumbling idiot I appologize.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #5
giggityjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcop View Post
I adjusted the choke spring this afternoon. It now idles very low until the engine warms up. When it does warm up it idles around 13k-14k. Is the fast idle speed adjustment the screw with the spring. Is this what controls the idle when the engine is cold. Also when I shut the engine down after a test drive it acted like it didn't want to shut down. One more issue. On my test drive with a cold engine, the jeep cut out or lost power. Like it lost fuel. It never jerked or appeared to bog. It felt like the engine shut down but it didn't. If I sound like a Bumbling idiot I appologize.
it sounds like as it warms up it is closing the choke plate, and starving it for air.... maybe you went the wrong way on teh adjustment....

should be oppisite, when your choke is engaged itshould high idle around 1800ish...... as it warms up the choke will kick out and itwill idle regulare... 750 - 900ish...... cold winter starts for me consist of ....


ONE pump... not 5 or 6, ONE pump SETS the choke,

one pump sets it, turn key to start, if it dont start or it is hard starting, hold wide open throttle while you crank... this has been what works for me for the last 8 years, I get 6 months of below freezing temps and a good 2 months of solid -30 or colder......

actually fired my jeep for the first time today in over 2 weeks from -17ish.... fired on one crank....
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:10 PM   #6
oldtime_ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcop View Post
I adjusted the choke spring this afternoon. It now idles very low until the engine warms up. When it does warm up it idles around 13k-14k. Is the fast idle speed adjustment the screw with the spring. Is this what controls the idle when the engine is cold. Also when I shut the engine down after a test drive it acted like it didn't want to shut down. One more issue. On my test drive with a cold engine, the jeep cut out or lost power. Like it lost fuel. It never jerked or appeared to bog. It felt like the engine shut down but it didn't. If I sound like a Bumbling idiot I appologize.
Nah yer not a bumbling idiot. We all learn somewhere - I sure am! I grew up with carbs but I dunno the details of the Weber. To me it sounds like you did the right choke adjustment but maybe went too far. It should just be closed when stone cold, and open all the way when fully warm.

Most carbs have more than one idle speed. The "slow idle" which you adjust with the screw. And the fast idle which works off the throttle linkage. I really dunno enough bout the weber to say which screw, but I do know that you should be able to "goose the gas" to get it off the fast idle down to the slow idle when it is completely warmed up.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:31 PM   #7
giggityjeeper
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weber only has 1 idle screw, and a fuel/air mixture screw...... all there is to adjust on them really...

you can 'adjust' the linkage by making it long or shorter, but really only 2 screws to adjust.... could be you air mixture screw is open to far or not enough...

and yes, you can kick the throttle to take it out of high idle.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 04:43 PM   #8
mcmud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcop View Post
I adjusted the choke spring this afternoon. It now idles very low until the engine warms up.
Not one word on how it started, in otherword what was required to do so, nor whether or not the plates snap closed as you cycle the throttle or if the plates are opening as the engine warms, coming to rest fully open when the engine is warmed???

Good exhange of information will be a major player in dialing this thing in... without that I'm stumped! Who knows what?

Quote:
When it does warm up it idles around 13k-14k. Is the fast idle speed adjustment the screw with the spring. Is this what controls the idle when the engine is cold.
Yes the fast idle screw is in play while the choke plates are closed or have progressed to some extent with their opening ... adjustments alter how long as well as how much.

Quote:
Also when I shut the engine down after a test drive it acted like it didn't want to shut down. One more issue. On my test drive with a cold engine, the jeep cut out or lost power. Like it lost fuel. It never jerked or appeared to bog. It felt like the engine shut down but it didn't. If I sound like a Bumbling idiot I appologize.
Zero apologies are necessary, I fully understand that these added symptoms raise concern, need addressing and can be/are easily corrected if we know and share what is going on.

As I mentioned in the first reply, the fast idle screw will most likely come into play as you're nearing having the choke assembly set. Its pretty obvious that with the run-on issue it has, holding the throttle plate open to the extent that fuel continues to flow after you prepare to shut the engine down.

Adjustment to the Fast Idle Speed screw should only be performed while the engine is cold and plates sitting at that preset stop position mentioned earlier. That position should be near to yet slightly under 1/4" off of the air horn walls.

Here is an image that indicates the location of the points of concern, notice that this image (a 38DGES) lists one of it's two idle mixture screws, your 32/36 will only have one and it will be located along that same end but angled and located nearer to the rear side of the body flange.

The Idle Speed Screw (not to be confused with the Fast Idle Speed screw) should be set no more than 1-1/2 turn in after its tip contacts the stop on a fully warmed engine and after the throttle has be cycled open to closed, OR, set after you hold the choke plates completely opened while you cycle the throttle. This should clear the fast idle screw from interference.
Idle quality is set via the Idle Mixture screw in relation to the size of the Primary Idle jet... located behind the Idle Jet Holder.

Ideally the Idle Speed screw should be found to offer a steady curb idle speed whole resting between 2 to 2-1/4 turns out from lightly seated.
choke.jpg  
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Unread 01-03-2012, 07:38 PM   #9
rockcop
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After the initial adjustment to the choke it turned over a few times then fired but immediately stalled. It did this twice then fired and idled very low and rough. When I throttle the jeep with the linkage, the flappers stayed closed.

I went back down tonight after a few replies and fiddled with the flapper tension. I believe I may have had it to tight. Know when I throttle with the linkage the flappers open.

Tonights gonna be cold, so I'll see how it reacts.

Thanks for the continued assistance.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #10
Old4X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giggityjeeper View Post

ONE pump... not 5 or 6, ONE pump SETS the choke,

...

I am not referring to setting the choke, I am referring to how to prime an engine if the choke is acting wonky.

If you operate enough carbed motors, eventually you will run into one where the choke is missing, sticking, or inoperable. The engine can still be started by priming the engine.
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Unread 01-03-2012, 09:59 PM   #11
mcmud
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In the morning, prior to an attempt to start it, get a visual fix on the location of the Fast Idle Screw.

Have a screwdriver that will accommodate the screw adjustment at the ready. That screw will typically be found kinda at a downward angle so an approiate length blade will be needed.

Remove the air filter cover and for now leave it off (until it is drivable or at rest) so that you can verify;

1.) that the edges of the choke plate are resting near closed yet near to 1/4" off of the air horn wall.
2.) that they are instantly pulled back to that preset stop at the start.

Pump the pedal to the floor twice, release it and you should see that the plates have completely closed.
If plates do not fully close with the pedal cycle you either have too little bi-metal spring compression, OR, the Fast Idle screw is set so deep that it can't climb onto the Fast Idle lever.

If the plates snapped closed (with authority) at the throttle cycle then it indicates that the spring is set near enough for guess work... fine tuning it will follow.

So now we may assume that the Fast Idle screw needs backing out a smidgen or two prior to the attempt to start.

Bump the key and hopefully it will start.

If it starts but idles too low or too high jump to that screw adjustment, in=faster, out=slower. No pedal nor throttle cycles should be used during this process.

If you feel that further adjustment to the choke system (choke plates, throttle position) is needed, shut it down so to keep the cold engine state. Make adjustments and another attempt, OR, if it idles near to the anticapted 1350 to 1700 hop out and get to work on that fast idle screw, while it is still cold and running.

Here is an image of the Weber Tune Guide with the stop lever identified with red bar which the Idle Speed Screw contacts once the engine is fully warmed, OR, until the choke plates are held open while you cycle the throttle.

Get to know that stop.

Here is where you must verify that;
1.) the Fast Idle Speed screw and lever are clear from interfering, notice how it is standing away in that image....choke is in play. It will snap towards/nearer the tip of the screw once you warm it OR cycle the throttle while holding the choke plates open.
2.) the Idle Speed screw has made contact
3.) that this screw is set to 1-1/2 turn inward after the contact is made. This is based on the assumption that the mixture screw has been preset to a range near 2-1/2 turns out... for the time being.

I hope this helps.
dgv-tune-stop-lever.jpg  
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Unread 01-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #12
giggityjeeper
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hey cool distructions.... maybe I will tune mine again, god knows it needs it
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family roll bar swap/upgrade..

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Unread 01-04-2012, 11:28 AM   #13
rockcop
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I haven't been able to make any more adjustments yet but wanted to confirm a few things. Like I said before I rotated the spring so the flaps were closed all the way. This was done with the engine cold and off. It does start faster but it seems to be choking out and stalling. It does this a few times and then starts with very low idle. When I cycle the linkage the flaps open about 50%. Is this incorrect? You said they should close when you cycle the throttle linkage. Tomorrow I plan on make a few adjustments when it's dead cold. The temp this morning was 25 but I didn't have time to work on it. When it warmed up it acted as though it was starving for gas or had moisture in the fuel. If I depressed the skinny pedal more than 25% it would act this way. It also only happens when in gear. In park it seems to throttle fine although the rpm's are 12k-13k warm. Also when I start it, white smoke comes out of the exhaust until it warms. Again I plan to work on it in the morning just wanted confirm the flap behavior and other symptoms. Perhaps I moved the choke adjustment the wrong direction, but they closed when I did.
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Unread 01-04-2012, 11:42 AM   #14
oldtime_ironman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockcop View Post
I haven't been able to make any more adjustments yet but wanted to confirm a few things. Like I said before I rotated the spring so the flaps were closed all the way. This was done with the engine cold and off. It does start faster but it seems to be choking out and stalling. It does this a few times and then starts with very low idle. When I cycle the linkage the flaps open about 50%. Is this incorrect? You said they should close when you cycle the throttle linkage.

Again I plan to work on it in the morning just wanted confirm the flap behavior and other symptoms. Perhaps I moved the choke adjustment the wrong direction, but they closed when I did.
I think yer on the right track. If I understand correctly, the flaps should be just shy of 1/4 inch gap when closed. You may have gone a bit too far with the adjustment. When you set the choke before starting they should snap into that position, nearly closed. I'm not 100% sure but I think they should open more than 50% if you cycle the linkage especially if its already getting warmed up. However like I said I'm not familiar with the details of the Weber, so I'll let the Weber experts say for sure. (Most of what I know is GMC Rochester carbs)
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Unread 01-04-2012, 01:16 PM   #15
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Listen to mcmud he is a wealth of knowledge, and he's helped me many times to tune my carb... just in case I hope you remembered to reconnect the wire to the electric choke... sometimes we can forget the obvious looking for complex issues...
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