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-   -   V8 Swap (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/v8-swap-1751986/)

Brewsky88 11-03-2013 01:17 AM

V8 Swap
 
I have an opportunity to buy the engine/trans/xfer case (318 V8/auto) that came out of a early 90's Cherokee (ran when it was pulled 2 years ago). It's carbureted so I don't need to worry about injection computers. Aside from the obvious motor mounts and various brackets, just how much custom fab am I going to need to do to have her functional in my YJ? A Ford 8.8" swap will be happening at the same time so I won't be worrying about that D35 crappin' out on me.

Mark05059 11-03-2013 03:13 AM

might want to find out exactly what your looking at... I believe all the 5.2 in the 90s were fuel injected.... Im sure someone smarter then me will chime in soon..

fishadventure 11-03-2013 05:34 AM

the first two questions would be what does the ignition need to fire and is the carburetor an aftermarket or is it meant to be controlled by a computer. as far as fabrication, *I think* the motor mounts will need to be moved, the transmission will need a mount of some sort, and exhaust will probably want a little creativity. mechanically, depending on what auto tranny you have, the transfer case input shaft might not be "right" and the transfer case to transmission might need to be addressed to let it bolt up and allow the transfer shifter to work. front springs might want to be changed. I am new to jeeps but not to swaps and adaptations; those are the things that cross my mind.

mike_breaker_5 11-03-2013 10:13 AM

the first v-8 in any Cherokee platform was the 1993 ZJ, and yes it is MPFI. unless someone pulled the heads, intake, and the entire ignition system to swap in older LA parts it is still MPFI.

i did this exact swap in my rig. i used a 93 zj as the donor, the motor was originally from a dodge ram.
first point i would make about maintaining the auto trans and x-case is the sheer size of them. even with mounting the engine forward in the frame rails and adding an electric fan you are going to be looking at a rear driveshaft that would likely be shorter than stock.

if your not overly opposed to a manual you can use a mid 90's manual dodge dakota 3.9L bellhousing and a 231D or 231J (the dodge x-case would be preferred since it has the HD chain in it). with the motor moved forward as far as the electric fan and accessories allow, along with the installation of a SYE i had a 19.5" resting length for my rear DS with the d35 still in there.

motor mounts are easy. advanced adapters has motor mounts that are easy to get welded to the frame. i used a series of jacks and wood blocks to get the motor sitting in the desired position before fabricating the spacers for the motor mounts to be welded to. i made some cardboard patterns to gut the steel to and bingo bango motor was permanently mounted to the frame.

transmission mount is also easy. this is sort of a double whammy upgrade. find yourself some 1/4" plate steel and make yourself a flat skid. this is what is currently under my rig. it's not terribly pretty but it works.
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...DSC06001-1.jpg

this allows you to put your trans mounts wherever you please and gives you a truly tucked belly at the same time.

wiring isn't my strong point so i had jeff daniels jeeps do it for me. however, MoparFreak here on the forum was able to do all the wiring himself on a swap like this. maybe getting him a pm would help.

for exhaust you will need a set of shorty block huggers. long tubes will fit but you will curse the day you put them in after a short while. the heddman 318 block huggers have ports that will match the magnum heads if that is indeed what you have. an LA header will bolt up, but the ports are the wrong shape so it will not work efficiently.
http://static.summitracing.com/globa.../hed-78500.jpg
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/he...iew/make/dodge

i would also suggest a y-pipe and not trying true duals. i tried it and after a ton of wasted time and money i just made a y-pipe and went with a stock routing of the exhaust.

other than that it's really not all that difficult of a swap. you can maintain your stock fuel sender and pump, stock radiator will cool it just fine except a little creative hose routing will be required, and you can use your stock power distribution box from under the hood along with your stock gauges.

now getting the jeep to where your not destroying the driveline, that is another conversation all in itself. the ax-15 will take some minor abuse but not very much for not very long.

mike_breaker_5 11-03-2013 10:37 AM

here are a few pics of my engine bay.

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...5/DSC06721.jpg

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...5/DSC06722.jpg

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...5/DSC06992.jpg

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...5/DSC06994.jpg

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/x...5/DSC07911.jpg

the first few pics have the long tubes installed. i ditched them after a lot of headaches. they were replaced with the block huggers in the last pic

SunDevilJeeper 11-03-2013 06:29 PM

Stay away from the Summit block hugger shorty headers that are made by Patriot if you do this swap. My set had some ****ed up *** welds on them.

I'm looking for a different set of headers right now.

mike_breaker_5 11-03-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevilJeeper (Post 17407066)
Stay away from the Summit block hugger shorty headers that are made by Patriot if you do this swap. My set had some ****ed up *** welds on them.

I'm looking for a different set of headers right now.

this is exactly why i linked the hedman headers from summit, not the summit branded headers. i believe it was ratmonkey that pointed me away from the summit brand headers for just the reason you mentioned. i ended up using a set of rodworks headers, i had to fix a few welds on them but they are still going strong for me. the hedman block huggers is what ratmonkey had put on his zj, they are very very nice headers.

one more thing i forgot to mention...
you absolutely cannot use stock jeep 5.2 manifolds if you plan on putting the manual trans in. the drivers side dump is pointing directly at where the starter will be after you get everything in. i think there are a couple dodge ones that have both dumps pointing more towards the firewall, they may be a viable option.

SunDevilJeeper 11-03-2013 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_breaker_5 (Post 17413458)
this is exactly why i linked the hedman headers from summit, not the summit branded headers. i believe it was ratmonkey that pointed me away from the summit brand headers for just the reason you mentioned. i ended up using a set of rodworks headers, i had to fix a few welds on them but they are still going strong for me. the hedman block huggers is what ratmonkey had put on his zj, they are very very nice headers.

one more thing i forgot to mention...
you absolutely cannot use stock jeep 5.2 manifolds if you plan on putting the manual trans in. the drivers side dump is pointing directly at where the starter will be after you get everything in. i think there are a couple dodge ones that have both dumps pointing more towards the firewall, they may be a viable option.

Mucho respect to ratmonkey, he was awesome.


I'm not sure if I still have a picture of the headers I bought, but I looked at it and said hell no. Then they sat outside and the morning dew rusted both of them out. Stainless steel my ***. I'm gonna purchase a set of the hedman headers and give it a shot. Painted or coated headers is something I've really been wanting too,

Brewsky88 11-04-2013 03:23 AM

I will definitely PM MoparFreak seeing as I'm in Guam and can't exactly send my Heep/harness to a shop. Also with being stuck on a tiny island, junkyards are few (2) and far between, and parts go FAST. I know for a fact I won't be keeping my current 5 speed, if an AX-15 won't hold long then my puny AX-5 won't even make it to the end of the street. I have no problem working with the current trans/xfer case that are already married to the engine now for the time being and then upgrade once I get back stateside. I found out today that the engine IS fuel injected and came out of a 94 and comes with all of the wiring/sensors/computer stuff, it drove itself into the shop before being yanked.

Not including whatever I can talk him down to for the engine, what kind of a price range would I be looking at start to finish? (a shopping list would be AMAZING lol)

Mike, I have the capability to make a trans mount like you have at work but with the distance between my house and the shop I can't keep making extra trips to fabricate something (leaving my Jeep there and doing the swap in the back on my own time is not only a no, but a HELL NO), nor will I really have the time to wait for the snail mail to take 3 weeks for packages to get here mid-build. This is currently my daily driver but I will have a 4 week window starting the week of Thanksgiving to complete it while a friend is off island and letting me use his truck. Would these be good motor mounts?
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...l#.UnYNB_lmj0s

SunDevilJeeper 11-04-2013 03:42 AM

You can use the AX-15 behind the 5.2, and it will handle moderate abuse. Just don't go raiding the performance aisle for your engine. Definitely don't do any high RPM clutch dumping and all that other jazz and you'll be alright. The AX15 does fine behind a 4.7L I6 stroker which makes more power than a 5.2L V8, if not the same. If you decide on the AX15, you can use the stock skid plate like I am. I am however going belly up like Mike has though.

Novak makes some good mounts for the 318/360 swap, that's what I have. They have a LOT of adjustability as well. www.novak-adapt.com, just another option in case you're interested.

Brewsky88 11-04-2013 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevilJeeper (Post 17416122)
You can use the AX-15 behind the 5.2, and it will handle moderate abuse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewsky88 (Post 17415994)
my puny AX-5 won't even make it to the end of the street.

If I had the 15 I would go that route since I prefer shifting my own gears. I don't want to seem like I'm rushing the project but I have a limited deadline and I know a few people will rag on me for putting my daily driver under the knife like this, but the way I see it is if I can't trust this swap to get me the 15 miles to and from work, then why should I trust it to take me down a 20 mile trail and back where there is no room for error. My 2.5L has 281k miles on it, it is very tired and I would rather get everything for the swap piled up now so that I can knock most of it out in one shot. As opposed to 2 months down the road, my 4 banger saying "**** you, I ain't goin' an further" and I'm SOL.

mike_breaker_5 11-04-2013 10:40 AM

if you are going the ax-15 route...
then you will need...
ax-15 (of course)

bell housing from mid 90's dakota that had a 3.9L and a manual trans.

dodge ram clutch setup i'll say 1995 dodge 1500 ram 5.2L just so you can tell the autoparts guy a specific year. (1.125" dia 10 spline clutch disk)
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...157&cc=1095656
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/get...LuK/05-074.jpg

i know i am forgetting some stuff. maybe sun devil can add to the list.
i would recommend a 1" taller body mounting kit if you intend on tucking the belly like i did. that will keep you from having to trim your tunnel.
http://www.4wd.com/aux_incl/images.a...fI&w=400&h=400
http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Lift-Kits-Je...D%2fI1-113-BL#
this kit is the best imo. it comes with all grade8 hardware, one piece sleeves, full height mounts not just adding 1" pucks, and it's poly not rubber. this is the kit i used on my rig.

this pilot bushing (provided you are using the ax-15).
NATIONAL Part # FC69907 Needle Bearing; Bore=0.7518", Outer Diameter=1.8161", Width=0.565"
http://catalog.woodys-auto-supply.co...-69907_ANG.jpg

94-95 yj / early tj master slave setup. only 94-95 yj's have the external slave and i think 97-like 2001 TJ's used the ax-15. you should be able to find a used one on e-bay if they will ship to guam.

personally i recommend an electric fan.

np231 from another yj/tj or a dakota. i would recommend the dodge x-case due to it having the HD chain.

hedman headers for 318/360 linked previous.

you will need to make your own y-pipe.

catalytic converter (or something to represent one)

center in/center out muffler (i used the Flowmaster Super 44 Series Mufflers 2.5" Center/Center)

you can put a stock tailpipe behind all this. you will need to adapt for length after the muffler with a short straight piece. you may want to fab up a 2.5" pipe after getting back stateside.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...983&cc=1185195
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/get...83-0&width=450

some sort of air cleaner. i used this one
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server24....1280.1280.jpg

http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/rug...1gw-1972-1991/

mike_breaker_5 11-04-2013 10:52 AM

i really couldn't tell what you should use if you retain the auto. i am going to say again that i really would do some measuring before going that route. the auto trans and the x-case in the ZJ are a lot longer than the manual setup in a YJ.

SunDevilJeeper 11-04-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewsky88 (Post 17416354)
If I had the 15 I would go that route since I prefer shifting my own gears. I don't want to seem like I'm rushing the project but I have a limited deadline and I know a few people will rag on me for putting my daily driver under the knife like this, but the way I see it is if I can't trust this swap to get me the 15 miles to and from work, then why should I trust it to take me down a 20 mile trail and back where there is no room for error. My 2.5L has 281k miles on it, it is very tired and I would rather get everything for the swap piled up now so that I can knock most of it out in one shot. As opposed to 2 months down the road, my 4 banger saying "**** you, I ain't goin' an further" and I'm SOL.

There's a few transmissions you can use in the manual arena, I can't help you with automatics since I refuse to swap one into my Jeep. You can also use the NV4500, but that's a $2000 transmission, and it's huge (requires a 1" body lift).... so, yeah.

The AX-15, NV3500, and NV3550 are the ones you're looking at. All similar in strength. The clutch kit I used is here http://www.allreplacement.com/product/6358 jmews is also using that clutch as well. I don't know if it will work with a 3500 or 3550 though, it will work with a 5.2 and AX-15.

For the bellhousing, try to get one post 94-95, I think mine is a 96. That will allow you to use the external slave cylinder, which the one I'm using is for a 95 YJ.

Mike pretty much covered the rest. I bought the pilot bearing he posted. Not much else I can think of really.


I think there's only one person on here who's done an automatic with the 5.2/5.9 swap. I'm not sure who it would be, if anybody even did. Seems like everybody on here goes manual when swapping to these engines, me included. The AX-15 and NV3500 are the two most common transmissions with this swap as far as I know.

mike_breaker_5 11-04-2013 06:35 PM

the nv4500 is my next step since i keep tearing up ax-15's. i already have a d300 to put behind it. i was trying to be general since he is limited in time and resources.


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