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Unread 06-08-2010, 05:55 AM   #1
Karma
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Trouble Removing My AX15

HI All,
I need your ideas. I'm replacing my AX 15 on my '89 258 with an NV3550. I'm right in the middle of the job. Here's my situation. The transfer case has been removed, the exhaust crossover pipe has been disconnected. I have a floor jack supporting the engine on the pan. And I have a Harbor Freight transmission jack supporting the transmission. The shift tower has been removed as well as all the electrical stuff and linkages. The starter is out. The clutch line is disconnected (I'm going to an external slave system-YEA!!!). All the bell housing bolts have been removed including those two nasties at the top of the ball housing.

I have double and triple checked the bolts by eye, by feel and with a mirror. They all seem to be removed. IOW, I can't see anything to keep the tranny from sliding out.

At this point I can't slide the tranny out. It comes out to the point where it is separated from the block by about 1/2 inch. I can see the locating pins and the tranny is about half way out on the pins but it won't come out further. I can rock the tranny side to side. I have tried to change the angles by raising and lowering the transmission jack. I can see the tranny move and it seems loose. I also have raised and lowered the engine to see if there is interference with the hump. All that seems fine. It won't come out.

It acts like the input shaft is hung up on the clutch disk spline. If I wedge a pry bar between the bell housing and the flywheel and apply pressure, the tranny moves back a little but springs back when I remove pressure from the bar. I can imagine the clutch disk flexing and then returning.

Where should I go next? I am considering using a ratchet strap around the tranny and back to the rear diff and use brute force. If I resort to this I will run another ratchet strap forward from the block to the front diff to help keep all the forces off the motor mounts. I really don't want to do this. And I don't think I should need to do this. But, right now I don't see an alternative.

Any ideas? I would appreciate it.

Thanks, Sparky

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Unread 06-08-2010, 06:00 AM   #2
lowicz96
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Did you get the small bolts that hold the inspection cover to the transmission? They are towards the front facing the rear of the jeep at like 10 and 2 o'clock. You should be able to spin and move around the inspection cover with trans that loose or even remove it because its behind the fly wheel and bolted to the trans
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Unread 06-08-2010, 06:09 AM   #3
JeeperDon
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I agree. Did you take off the insp plate in front of the flywheel bottom (next to oil pan)? If that is off, and what you said is removed already really is, then it should just slide out.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 09:32 AM   #4
Karma
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HI,
Thanks guy's. I'm not sure which inspection plate you are talking about. The only inspection plate I have removed is the one on the transmission hump in front of the shift tower and is removed from the inside of the cab. It lets you get to the two top bell housing bolts. These are reverse Torx bolts but can be removed with a regular socket. I call them the "bolts from hell".

The inspection plate you may be talking about is a vertical flat piece of metal that covers the front of the fly wheel and is next to the pan. This piece is sandwiched between the starter and the bell housing. Is this the one? If so, I did not realize that it needed to come off. It doesn't seem to have any bolts that I noticed that attached to tranny. I'll take another look. It may be the answer.

Thanks again,

Sparky
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Unread 06-08-2010, 09:58 AM   #5
JeeperDon
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That 'oil pan side of flywheel' plate is usually attached to the bell housing with a couple screws/bolts.
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Unread 06-08-2010, 07:45 PM   #6
Karma
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HI lowicz96 and JeeperDon,
Hey guy's, thank you. You nailed the problem exactly. I couldn't see the bolts because they were covered in grease. But I could feel them. After I got them out the tranny came out like it was on ball bearings.

So, for both of you, a big . Yuk! You taste like GoJo. That's the problem with mechanics (not that I kiss mechanics very often-like never; I would hate to give the wrong impression).

Thanks Again,
Sparky
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Unread 06-09-2010, 05:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
HI lowicz96 and JeeperDon, Hey guy's, thank you. ... not that I kiss mechanics very often
You're welcome. Although the military is dropping it, JF has a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

Also, I just noticed you too are of the 'old fart' vintage, though slightly older and likely fartier than I . It's up to us to remind these whippersnppers that 'snow on the roof, fire in the furnace' thing is very alive in Jeeping. Then again, who cares what they think. Party on Wayne.

Oh, while you're doing that project, I have my old AX-15 on the bench torn apart for a rebuild (syncros were pretty shot). I plan to fix it and stick it on Craigslist, or maybe just hang onto it for a 'club spare', sell it later to a mate.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 07:51 AM   #8
Karma
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HI Don,
I'm still trying to get rid of the taste of GoJo.

I really don't have the option of keeping my old AX-15. I had the old internal slave version which I Truly hated. With the NV3530 conversion, I am also converting to an external slave. This is the primary reason I decided to not rebuild the AX15. You must have the later AX15 with the external slave. If that were my case, I probably would have rebuilt it. Basically, I think the AX15 is a good transmission. They seem to have shown a weakness with their synchronizers which is the problem I have, third gear in my case.

But I think I will be very happy with the NV3530. To my knowledge it does not have any chronic problems, it has a deeper first gear and I think it is a bit more heavy duty. It also weighs more. I have quite a lot of experience with the 3530. My Liberty has that transmission.

Have you heard that the NV4500 has carbon fiber synchronizers? I don't know what to think about that. It's supposed to be a rugged tranny. It's certainly big and heavy.

Anyway, I'm now well on my way to having a new tranny, clutch, and external slave. I'm excited. It's time to get back on the trail.

BTW,I bought the 3530 and all the associated clutch and misc. parts for the conversion from Advance Adaptors. It turned out that going this route was not much more expensive than buying a professionally rebuilt later generation AX15 when you add in the necessary clutch components.

And yes, I am an old fart at 68 years. I very proud that I have done all my own Jeep work. The youngsters should take note that we don't hobble around and drool. I think we build the best thought out Jeeps. We have the experience to know where to put our money. And, we are not afraid to buy the best when it makes sense. Usually, it does make sense. But, in deference to our younger friends, it does help to have some disposible income.

Sparky

Edit: I made a mistake and wrote 3035 instead of 3530. I'm making this note so if you read later posts which call this mistake to my attention, you will not be confused to see 3530 in this post.

Last edited by Karma; 06-09-2010 at 12:26 PM..
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Unread 06-09-2010, 08:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
I really don't have the option of keeping my old AX-15. I had the old internal slave version which I Truly hated.
Actually the only difference in the throwout bearing system is the 'bearing cover' on the front of the AX-15. If anyone needs to swap a trans, it's no big deal to put your old cover on the new trans. That's why rebuilding any AX-15 makes sense, to me anyway.

By the way, do you mean 3550? You wrote 3035. I never heard of that one.
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Unread 06-09-2010, 11:28 AM   #10
Karma
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HI Don,
Yes, I meant 3550.

Sparky
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Unread 06-09-2010, 11:43 AM   #11
YJake
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Glad that you got that figured out Sparky, I remember having to do all kinds of colorful things to get my AX5 to seperate from my engine. Good to know that you're finally getting that nv3550 and external slave in there as well!

Also, I sent you an Email.

Jake
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Unread 06-09-2010, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeperDon View Post
Actually the only difference in the throwout bearing system is the 'bearing cover' on the front of the AX-15. If anyone needs to swap a trans, it's no big deal to put your old cover on the new trans. That's why rebuilding any AX-15 makes sense, to me anyway.

By the way, do you mean 3550? You wrote 3035. I never heard of that one.
HI Don,
I don't understand you statement about the "bearing cover". I'm not sure what you are talking about. As for the differences between the transmissions with the internal slave and internal slave, they are totally different. The thowout bearings are totally different, the earlier one having the slave cylinder as one piece with the bearing. The NV3530 has a normal throwout bearing and the slave is mounted to the exterior surface of the bell housing. Also, with the older AX15, the bell housing and the transmission case is one common casting. The NV3530 and the newer AX15 have separate bell housings.

Sparky
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Unread 06-09-2010, 01:13 PM   #13
UltimatE
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The only differences between the internal and external setup AX-15's are the front bearing retainer (And depending on the year, there is a different pilot bearing size: 0.59" early, and 0.75" late) Its as easy as swapping these plates to convert the AX-15 from internal to external slave.

Here's what the internal bearing retainer plate looks like:



And here's what the external bearing retainer looks like:

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Unread 06-09-2010, 02:27 PM   #14
Karma
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HI All,
We are not communicating. On my early AX15, the tranmission case and the bell housing are one piece. There is no way to install a clutch fork and slave cylinder actuator on the bell housing. There is no way to switch bell housings. There is no way to convert a early AX15 to an external slave.

I said this above. I wish you guy's would read more carefully and not be so positive about your wrong ideas. If I'm wrong, I will say so. But I'm not.

Sparky
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Unread 06-09-2010, 02:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
HI All,
We are not communicating. On my early AX15, the tranmission case and the bell housing are one piece. There is no way to install a clutch fork and slave cylinder actuator on the bell housing. There is no way to switch bell housings. There is no way to convert a early AX15 to an external slave.

I said this above. I wish you guy's would read more carefully and not be so positive about your wrong ideas. If I'm wrong, I will say so. But I'm not.

Sparky
I have never heard of the AX-15 and bell housing being a single unit. Can you post pictures?
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