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Unread 01-20-2009, 09:06 PM   #1
yjcrawlr
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Timing help! Replaced timing chain now I can't get the timing right.

I recently had some timing issues and turned out the timing chain had wore a few teeth off the cam gear. Lined up the dots counted the 15 pins and put it all back together with a new chain and gears. Now the best I can do is some pops and bangs coming out of the carb. This is not my first time timing a engine. It is my first inline six. I have timed 4cyl and v8s with no problems. I have found tdc (so I thought) at least a few times. I have tried to time it by watching the lifters and I don't completly understand how to do this method. I have put my finger over #1 while cycling the engine and after the long suction I get a smaller puff of air out the plug hole which is what I thought was tdc. This is were the timing sits now banging and popping when you turn the engine over. I have tried a tooth each way from there and then put it back to that spot again. At one point in the engines cycle I get a huge puff of air out #1, I was told this is not tdc. Each time I have been lining the timing marks on the balancer with 0 and Pointing the rotor at #1. Is it possible something got damaged when I was turning the engine over while the timing was out(timing chain slipped). Help please before I start tearing the motor down.
Selby

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Unread 01-20-2009, 09:09 PM   #2
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Is it possible you're is 180* out? (meaning you're at TDC, but for exhaust, not compression) I've done this before in a 4 cyl
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yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
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Unread 01-20-2009, 09:44 PM   #3
yjcrawlr
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I have considered the 180 out and flipped the distributor 180 several times. I also get some high pitched squeals some times when the engine is turning over, I am not sure if it is the belt or something internal, I checked the alternator and other pulleys not them sqeaking.
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Unread 01-20-2009, 11:28 PM   #4
jbolty
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you might have the valve timing out 180. You can tell which is the exhust and intake valve by looking at the positions of the manifold inlets. Turn the motor and watch those two valve rockers go up and down for the intake stroke, then compression stroke, then power stroke, then exhust. For the compression stroke they should both be closed. TDC there is what you must have to get the valves or the ignition timed. Also, make sure you are looking at the right marks. Sometimes the sprockets have marks that look like they should be the timing makes but are not. Normally the proper marks are close to the edge.
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Unread 01-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #5
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Verify TDC #1 by inserting a screwdriver or something into the spark plug hole, and slowly turning the engine until the screwdriver stops. There should be several degrees of crank rotation where the screwdriver wont move at all. Split the difference between where it stops ascending and starts descending. thats TDC. Also, verify that both valves are closed during this stroke. Once this is complete, check your dizzy position, and give it a try. If that doesnt work, your problem problem most likely lies in the cam timing. Make sure the cam is indicating TDC when the #1 piston is at TDC. DON'T trust the mark on the balancer, until you have verified it using the method listed above. They have been known to be off in the past
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Unread 01-21-2009, 06:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opihi59 View Post
Is it possible you're is 180* out? (meaning you're at TDC, but for exhaust, not compression) I've done this before in a 4 cyl
That happened to me too. It was easy to fix but left me confused as hell for hours. I would rotating one of the gears one turn.
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Unread 01-21-2009, 07:48 AM   #7
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when I watch the rockers for the valves they both go up and down(two at the front), at no time are they both down at the same time. If the dots on the timing gears line up and I have the 15 pins between them with the cam gear at 1:00 can the timing gears be out 180? If so help me understand how to get it right.
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2014 JKU, modified Rubicon Rails, RC stubby with warn 8000m, 2" leveling springs and OME trim spacers, Superchips Flashcal, Spidertrax wheel spacers, rubi shocks, and Lots more mods soon!!!
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Unread 01-21-2009, 09:01 AM   #8
sitdwnandhngon
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If thats the problem the way to fix it is to take the chain off, rotate the cam gear one full turn and then line the dots back up and put the chain on.
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Unread 01-21-2009, 09:04 AM   #9
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with the above.
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Unread 03-11-2010, 07:49 PM   #10
chato77
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hey buddy i have a better technique for the timing..

hey selby i know that your timing is getting on your last nerve but i have a solution for you buddy i learned this from my uncle master mechanic oh and his mexican so that trick
is from his old country and let me tell you it works .ok first thing you do is take out the #1 PLUG&WIRE get a plastic bag and tear a small piece then ball it up then gently push the plastic inside then you have your friend give it a click when you see that plastic ball fly out with pressure then you get a thin flat head screwdriver shove it in there then your friend again will give a few clicks till you hit tdc you will sense the piston at the very top thats when you know your there wish you luck.....
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Unread 03-11-2010, 08:19 PM   #11
Mark05059
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personally.. I wouldnt put anything "loose" in my motor.. just remove plug 1.. hold your finger over the hole... when you feel pressure then start using a screw driver. Makes it easier if you use a wratchet and socket on the crank bolt to turn it
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Unread 03-11-2010, 08:52 PM   #12
Larry93
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TDC happens every rotation of the crank so setting your #1 cylinder is of no issue. The cam rotates at half the crank speed so your TDC is really when the piston is at the peak of its up stroke and the cam lobes for both valves are at base circle. The valve cover off is a must when you set the timing, you can clearly watch the rockers movement in relation to the crank then. You know when you have both valves on the base circle when the rockers are slack on the valves and you can twist your push rods with your fingers.
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Unread 03-11-2010, 09:08 PM   #13
Opihi59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry93 View Post
TDC happens every rotation of the crank so setting your #1 cylinder is of no issue. The cam rotates at half the crank speed so your TDC is really when the piston is at the peak of its up stroke and the cam lobes for both valves are at base circle. The valve cover off is a must when you set the timing, you can clearly watch the rockers movement in relation to the crank then. You know when you have both valves on the base circle when the rockers are slack on the valves and you can twist your push rods with your fingers.
Cam rotates at 2X the crank speed...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 03-11-2010, 09:11 PM   #14
Larry93
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Originally Posted by Opihi59 View Post
Cam rotates at 2X the crank speed...
No it is half the speed, if it was twice engines would not run to long.
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Unread 03-11-2010, 09:12 PM   #15
Opihi59
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Wait, now I'm confused.......I know this is gonna set off a firestorm. I think you're right since I read a few posts and did a google. I will have to get back on this one. I may be a total bozo. Please be gentle with me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian4.2 View Post
We will be going Metric every inch of the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40dog View Post
yes I'm a some guy and have always put gasket sealer on my surfaces before mating
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virjeep View Post
You should go to Pirate. I hear they are real smart over there. You'd fit right in.
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