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Unread 03-31-2011, 08:19 PM   #1
ApocalypseJeep
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Timing Chain Replacement Question

So, I'm about to replace the timing set on my 93 4.0, I had a coupld of questions. I understand that I must first set the #1 cylinder a top dead center, but what I'm wondering is when I take off the timing cover, will the timing gear marks already be facing each other like they should, or do I have to further rotate the engine clockwise to get them to line up? Or do I have to find the compression stroke for #1 cylinder that will line them up? Or do I get it to TDC, and remove the old set and replace it exactly where the old marks were?
I'm just trying to be sure about everything before I go tearing her apart. Also, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to put the transmission in gear once i get it to TDC to baisicly lock the crankshaft in place to prevent anything from moving while doing the swap. Any tips or hints would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Unread 03-31-2011, 08:40 PM   #2
4.7stroker
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If you set the engine to tdc compression stroke (rotor pointing to #1 spark plug wire) the timing gear marks should be lined up. Then it is a simple matter of swapping parts, nothing will move on you just use common sence.

Dwayne
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Unread 03-31-2011, 08:46 PM   #3
plym49
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You can spin it so that the marks are facing each other after you take the vibration damper and timing cover off. If you set it at TDC beforehand, no problem, but you have a 50:50 chance of the marks being lined up or the cam gear being 180 degrees out.

When you put it back together you have to do it twice. By this I mean put timing cover on with all the bolts barely snugged, then install vibration damper to center the timing cover/seal on the damper, tighten the bolts and then pull the vibration damper again so you can tighten the hidden timing cover bolt underneath.

Don't forget to put the spring and plunger back before you fit the cover - these control cam end play and you need them.

Use a speedy sleeve on the damper as it will have a groove on it from the old seal and the speedy sleeve gives you a new, perfect surface. I got mine - and all the gaskets - from Amazon.

Make sure you do not loose and make note of the little spacers that mount in various places around the timing cover and alternator bracket. Otherwise ithe bracket will not line up and you could crack the cover. They are easy to miss when you are tearing it down since they will be covered with grime and they can fall to the ground unnoticed.

You will have to coax the old timing gear off the nose of the camshaft. Just take it slow and wiggle bit by bit until it comes free.

Make sure sure sure the marks are lined up correctly when you install the new chain and gears. It is possible to be slightly off, so be careful.

Other than that it is a walk in the park. Take it slow and you will be fine.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 05:10 PM   #4
ApocalypseJeep
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Awsome, Thanks for the helpful tips. I realize that I will have to use the dampner to line up the timing cover, but I was not aware of having to use a speedi sleeve for the dampner. Is this something that must be done? Is it something that can be done later? (it wouldn't be hard to remove the belt and pulley later) I was planning on replacing the timing cover seal after getting the cover lined up, for good measure, but I never heard of having to add a sleave to the dampner in all of my research, and reading my Chilton and Haynes manuals.
Also, with the timing chain being slightly stretched, would that cause any problems in getting everything lined up. Could it stretch to being one or two teeth off on timing? I guess if it was that much off, it would probaly run like crap and backfire from poor timing. I was told that when lining up the timing marks, to never turn counterclockwise because the slack from the old chain will throw off the timing, it sounds like it makes sense, but what do you guys think? This is why I asked in my first post if it's a good idea to put the tranny in gear to baisicly lock the crankshaft from turning. Also it would work well for torquing the crank shaft bolt.
I'm trying to thorough because, as stated in the last post, you can be slightly off, and thats the last thing I want. Thanks for any help guys
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Unread 04-01-2011, 05:17 PM   #5
sbsg2005
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a speedy sleeve is not always necessary but is a good idea to have on hand.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 05:55 PM   #6
ApocalypseJeep
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Ok, Thats good to know, but how do I go about finding the right sleeve at the right size? I'm new to Jeeps so I wouldn't know where to start, finding the right size for that job. Is that something I could find at Autozone, or other parts stores? Do you baisicly fit that into the dampner then istall to the crankshaft? Or does it go onto the crankshaft and the dampner installs on top of it? By the looks of price, it seems like it might be cheaper and easier to buy another dampner. This is a curve ball for me, since I've got only a small window of time to fix it in a friends garage.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 06:14 PM   #7
4.7stroker
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The sleeve just provides a new surface for the oil seal to ride on. Sometimes the old seal has worn a grove in the harmonic balancer and the sleeve covers that. So you would put the sleeve on the balancer then install the balancer on the crank.

Dwayne
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Unread 04-01-2011, 06:24 PM   #8
Nibbley15
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If you are time limited and can't wait for the speedy sleeve, the next thing you can get is some 1500 to 2000 grit sand paper. And just sand the harmonic balancer where the seal rides, you will probably find that there is a mark all the way around where the seal was riding. You can get it smooth enough to last quite a while, just depends how deep the grove was. Sliding your fingernail across it will tell you alot.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 06:44 PM   #9
ApocalypseJeep
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Ok, that makes sense. Here's the kicker, no places around here carrys those sleeves, so I would have to order it online. Prices go from 30 to 37 dollars each, plus shipping and handling. This part is intended to cover the grove in the dampner, made by the oil seal on the timing cover right? Well, I can buy a brand new dampner for 44 bucks, wich would be only a difference of a couple dollars after shipping and handling if a got the sleeves. Wouldn't this work the same as buying the speedi sleeve? Like I said, I'm on a small winow of time to do this job (one day). Thanks again for everyboys help and tips!
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Unread 04-01-2011, 07:30 PM   #10
Nibbley15
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Yes a new one provides a new place for the seal to ride on. So if you buy a new harmonic balancer/dampner then no need for a speedy sleeve. Unless you are getting bad vibration from the dampner no need to replace it, just sand it down a bit and you should be good to go. You can find sandpaper (1500-2000 grit) and almost any local parts store (usually hiding in the paint section).

EDIT: Here is a pic with a yellow arrow pointing to where to either sand down, put a speedy sleeve, or where the seal "rides" on (the outside) so to speak.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 07:55 PM   #11
ApocalypseJeep
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You guys rock! Thanks for all the info! I'll buy a new dampner, and keep the old one for a back up. Hell, if there's no groove I'll just return the new part! If there is, I'll sand down the old dampner and put it with the rest of my spare parts, it just saves me the trip to the parts store in the future when I change the chain and sprockets again in 70-80,000 miles. I'm glad you guys brought something to light, when it could have been easily over looked. Time to get greasy!!
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Unread 04-01-2011, 07:57 PM   #12
pasinbuy
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Don't worry it is not that hard of a job to do. As far as the timing marks you cannot be off if you lined the marks up before pulling the timing chain. If a gear broke then you have to find the #1 cylinder. Your timing gear did not break so your job is a piece of cake.

As far as the sleeve, you will see when you get in there if you need it.

Have fun, Change out the water pump as long as you are there if it has been a while, or if the water pump was never replaced.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 08:48 PM   #13
ApocalypseJeep
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For sure. I'm actually changing water pump, thermostat, belt, valve cover gasket, radiator, and oil pan gasket(and crank dampner!). Nothing has failed, but I figured I'll get her running solid for the summer. Less to worry about, right!?
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Unread 04-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #14
plym49
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Putting the engine in gear IS NOT a good way to lock things up because believe it or not, you can move the car by honking down on the crank nut.

You must install a new seal in the timing cover. It is a lot easier to get the old one out and the new one in with the cover off.

The sleeve is available from Amazon just search on your model/engine Jeep. The prices you cited seem high - maybe those prices also include the seal? I just took a quick look on Amazon and the price is mor elike $25 with free shipping. That has to be cheaper than a new damper. Sanding the damper hub just makes it smooth. If there is a groove, then metal is gone and there is that much less for the seal to seal against regardless of how smooth it is. You are changing a lot of parts so you don't have to open it up again. Do it right.

Lining up the marks on the way out is 'approximate' so it does not matter that the old chain is worn. But yes, only turn things clockwise. When you install your new chain and geears, you have the gears in the chain with the marks lining up. All perfectly lined up, on the workbench. Then you carry the entire thing without slipping the chain on either gear and you put the whole thing as one assembly into the engine. If the cam or crank needs a little tweak to line up, that happens kind of automatically. You'll see.

BTW Chilton or Motor manuals do not cover every eventuality. They are just guides.
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Unread 04-02-2011, 02:13 AM   #15
ApocalypseJeep
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plym49, Thank you for some very sound advice. As far as the "cranking on it", I should have mentioned that I'll be using a impact gun, and thought that might secure things a little better. Just a guess. You, reassured the fact I'll be getting a new dampner to go with the timing seal I bought. Honestly, I'm new to Jeeps, and I'd rather spend the money to make it fresh and new. I dont have the time to wait for a delivery, so I'll just sleeve the old one, and keep it for back up. Who knows, it may not have a groove in it, and everything will be great. I just want to be prepared.

You are right about the Chiltons and Haynes manuals, they are very basic. Why do you think I'm on here, reaching out to the Jeep Gurus for knowledge and help? Thanks again for all the info.
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