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Unread 07-30-2011, 11:50 AM   #1
TonyX2
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Timing chain question concerning '88 93k miles I6

Hello,

I am new to this forum but I didn't know where to ask and I felt that maybe a guru here could help me with answering this question for my old man since it's his jeep but I was driving it at the time it decided to "die" in a sense in the middle of traffic. The jeep is a manual jeep and when it died on me I still had electrical power to the stereo and AC but the engine totally ceased. I tried turning it on while in neutral and no dice.. eventually I had no choice and had to park it. I tried cranking it again, no dice. Long story short, we towed it back home where it's at now but he has determined that the timing chain is what needs to be replaced.

His question is, what happens if the timing chain jumped one of the teeth where it rides on at the moment it died on me?

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Unread 07-30-2011, 12:58 PM   #2
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what made you believe that its the timing chain?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 07:39 AM   #3
nembudonna
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It could have stopped for alot of reasons other then the timing chain. Have you checked for spark and fuel?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 09:33 AM   #4
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Need some info on the jeep what is it?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 09:45 AM   #5
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x2 on the above post. What are the specs on your jeep?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 11:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie4 View Post
x2 on the above post. What are the specs on your jeep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJMPC View Post
Need some info on the jeep what is it?
What other info would you like?

It's a Jeep Wrangler Laredo Inline 6 4x4 1988 with 93k miles Manual Transmission. He did some checking yesterday and now believes it's not the timing chain and that it's in time, but he thinks there some sort of "module" on the jeep that controls fuel system, in this case the carburetor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark05059 View Post
what made you believe that its the timing chain?
The car has been having idle problems in the past but it had to do with some valve in the carburetor that was missing some sort of seal and that fixed that problem. He's also adjusted the little dials it has in the carburetor so it didn't turn off, next to that we had replaced the clutch master cylinder and it's been running fine for months, till we install the car radio and now this little problem happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nembudonna View Post
It could have stopped for alot of reasons other then the timing chain. Have you checked for spark and fuel?
Could you clarify better on what you mean by this? From what I've seen him work on, he really just check the carburetor that it's obviously supplying the fuel right and that the starter is good (which was bought recently).


Now I will say and I am sure most of you will look at this post with a frown but the Jeep had been sitting in the parking lot for almost 5 years with no maintenance and it just being turn off and on once in a while. Obviously from sitting there components took beating from the sun and the weather. I am starting to believe he's stumped on why the jeep won't start now.

It cranks that's where it's at now.

Does this Jeep Wrangler have some sort of ECM?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 12:03 PM   #7
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What he means is that every motor requires 3 things to function. Spark, fuel and air. If the engine suddenly died on you, one of those 3 things were suddenly removed. And given the circumstances, either it's not getting spark, or fuel.

Skipping a tooth on the timing chain would prevent the motor from getting proper spark. So that could be an issue. But lots of other things could also cause no spark.

Having issues with the carb would result in the engine not getting fuel. However, in your description, it sounded like the engine suddenly died and didn't spit and sputter like it was starving for gas.

Asking for the specs helps us decide what troubleshooting steps to suggest.
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Unread 07-31-2011, 12:09 PM   #8
TonyX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pariah24 View Post
Having issues with the carb would result in the engine not getting fuel. However, in your description, it sounded like the engine suddenly died and didn't spit and sputter like it was starving for gas.

Asking for the specs helps us decide what troubleshooting steps to suggest.
It definitely didn't do the spit and sputter starving for gas sound. The specs, I guess I must be giving the wrong ones and I am a total noob. Would this be something other than the make and model year and type of engine it is?
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Unread 07-31-2011, 12:18 PM   #9
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Nah, that's what they were asking for. Although saying you have an inline six is a little vague because Jeep made 2 versions, the 4.2L which you have, and the 4.0HO which came in newer Jeeps. The troubleshooting is a little different because one was carb'd and the other is fuel injected.

If it were me, I'd start checking spark at the plug wire and tracing my way back.
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Unread 07-31-2011, 03:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pariah24 View Post
Nah, that's what they were asking for. Although saying you have an inline six is a little vague because Jeep made 2 versions, the 4.2L which you have, and the 4.0HO which came in newer Jeeps. The troubleshooting is a little different because one was carb'd and the other is fuel injected.

If it were me, I'd start checking spark at the plug wire and tracing my way back.
That's exactly what I ment. If you have spark, try pouring a little gas down the carb and see if it ignites. No starting fluid !!!!!!
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Unread 07-31-2011, 09:06 PM   #11
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If the coil did not go bad or its associated wiring is not bad then the pick up in the distributor could be the problem in you 4.2 engine.

Pull the coil wire at the distributor and see if your are getting a strong spark. Next pull a spark plug wire and see if there is a strong spark there...no? Then the problem is in the distribution of the spark isn't it!?
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Unread 09-30-2011, 07:44 PM   #12
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Alright here's the further information, sorry I left this thread abandoned but here's the situation. The following things were replaced and changed during our search for the problem:
  • Timing Belt Cover
  • Timing Belt
  • Timing sprockets [ 2 of them]
  • New carburator
  • New ECU
  • New spark plugs and cables

And 2 months later it's still doing this:


Just to confirm with everyone, it's a Jeep Wrangler Laredo 1988 4.2liter I6 engine 2-B Carb.

My father is completely stomped and as I am as well. Please help would be appreciate it if anyone knows what's causing it to sound like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laybackman View Post
If the coil did not go bad or its associated wiring is not bad then the pick up in the distributor could be the problem in you 4.2 engine.

Pull the coil wire at the distributor and see if your are getting a strong spark. Next pull a spark plug wire and see if there is a strong spark there...no? Then the problem is in the distribution of the spark isn't it!?
He said he replaced the distributor as well brand new and it's still doing the same problem. He verified on both ends and the spark is strong.

Last edited by TonyX2; 09-30-2011 at 07:57 PM..
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Unread 09-30-2011, 09:15 PM   #13
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You mentioned in post #6 that after you did a radio install this problem popped up. How soon after? Ten minutes, two weeks? That could be important But if you hacked into the wrong wire I would think it wolud not start from the get-go.

Stop throwing parts at this engine. It is expensive and can add to your problems. Do you have a good strong spark? Are you getting fuel? If you have both, the next thing is check this engine's timing with a timing light while trying to start it up. What does that timing light tell you? Timing chains are deceptively hard to install. If it is not in right you will never get this engine to run right. Determine if the engine timing is OK acccording to a timing light. Then get back to us here.
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Unread 09-30-2011, 09:22 PM   #14
TonyX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laybackman View Post
You mentioned in post #6 that after you did a radio install this problem popped up. How soon after? Ten minutes, two weeks? That could be important But if you hacked into the wrong wire I would think it wolud not start from the get-go.
I would say it was a month into it.

Quote:
Stop throwing parts at this engine. It is expensive and can add to your problems. Do you have a good strong spark? Are you getting fuel? If you have both, the next thing is check this engine's timing with a timing light while trying to start it up. What does that timing light tell you? Timing chains are deceptively hard to install. If it is not in right you will never get this engine to run right. Determine if the engine timing is OK acccording to a timing light. Then get back to us here.
I will notify him about that. As per the throwing parts at the engine.. I hear ya but it's hard to tell that to an old man that doesn't listen to ya. Btw did you check the video? Does that sound like something that could be with the timing chain? We used the Haynes "Complete rebuild" of the vehicle and in it showed how to verify if the timing belt was installed properly. He "told me" he did it correctly but.. if you are pointing it back to re-verifying that (assuming you saw the video) then.. I'll see what I can do from there on getting back to ya.
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Unread 09-30-2011, 09:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyX2 View Post
I would say it was a month into it.



I will notify him about that. As per the throwing parts at the engine.. I hear ya but it's hard to tell that to an old man that doesn't listen to ya. Btw did you check the video? Does that sound like something that could be with the timing chain? We used the Haynes "Complete rebuild" of the vehicle and in it showed how to verify if the timing belt was installed properly. He "told me" he did it correctly but.. if you are pointing it back to re-verifying that (assuming you saw the video) then.. I'll see what I can do from there on getting back to ya.
A month later this issue popped up? Then I would guess that your radio install was without 'collateral damage" then..

Timing must be the problem if you have fuel spark and oxygen. Timing must be verified with a timing light at this point. My guess would be siting here would be the distributer in is wrong or the timing chain set was installed wrong. So at this point the timing should be verified before anything else is to be looked at. One thing at a time must be eliminated to discover what is keeping this engine from firing.
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