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Unread 04-03-2013, 10:55 AM   #1
lincolnmatthews
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Is it time to "dump" this old money pit?

At what point do you quite dumping $$$$ into the old YJ? (This will probably be a long thrd sorry). Over a year ago I decided to keep my old 87 that had so faithfully treated us well as a recreation rig kept at our cabin. I bought originally about 12-15 yrs ago from a yard that gets wrecks etc. It had been hit in the rear pretty hard but not enough to tweak the frame. I decided to restore this one rather than buy a new one. (Don't like the TJ interior, wouldn't own one). So I've dumped thousands into it, the body had no rust at all, so I had beautiful red paint job (fixed the rear end), new Sailcloth top, alu wheels, tires, etc. Had a 2" BDS lift w/ 1" over schackles installed. This setup worked fine with the original BA-10 trans etc. But I had a rebuilt AX15 & NP231 (from a 95 YJ) this is where all my problems began. Can't seem to get rid of the roughness etc when I take off from a stop, actually kind of vibrates the whole interior of the Jeep. So this week I had a SYE installed & was going to drive it home last night without the rear drive line installed & noticed I still have the shakes & vibes in the cab!. They didn't get rid of the 1" spacers on the skid plate for the TC drop, didn't have the shorter bolts anyway I was going to raise the skidplate back up where it belongs?. But seems like to me that this will put more of an angle with the front driveline?? what do you guys think. I did just order new front motor mounts from Browndog thinking that my problem is with my old POS mounts, who knows? another hundie thrown at it!. I just found it hard to believe that not having the rear drive line installed that it would still feel like crap!.Oviously the SYE isn't going to fix it!. So what the hell is left?? Maybe lifting the drive train back up to the original position along with new motor mounts will finally fix it??. Also just ordered an aluminum valve cover to install to get rid of the POS plastic one that I broke last weekend trying to solve the massive oil leaks! I guess I never should have started to rebuild the 87 what an oddball year! (always kind of liked the fact that it hadn't been Chryslerized though)! Sure do love the looks of it though with its new Colorado Red & blk top & square headlights one hell of a looking Jeep, best on the hwy in my opinion!. But if I can't solve this crap I guess I will have to sell it (at a massive loss I know), & buy a new red Rubi, just don't want the $400.00/month pmts that go with it forever, the little lady starten to get pissed off with this money pit, what's a guy to do! Put so much into it at this point I hate to dump it now! Sorry about the long rant, just getting tired of working on it, I know its a Jeep! (I actually do do a lot of my own work, sometimes I just don't have the time to do the major stuff like changing out the trans, etc)

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Unread 04-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #2
Randonexplosion
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Well first off you should have bought my Brown Dog mounts that I have for sale If you have problems from take off after a transmission swap that would make think clutch. Did they install a new one? Maybe Trans mount? If all of that is fine maybe the vibes in the cab are from worn body mounts?
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Unread 04-03-2013, 11:18 AM   #3
pete1991YJ
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The front driveshaft isn't balanced at all, the rear one is. A driveshaft shop can easily fix that. Normally you would never notice it because you aren't going that fast offroad. But if you're driving on the road with the front only, you will feel it. Mine rides like a paint mixer and the shifting is about like a 40 year old school bus. Its just fine. You're welcome to try it.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 11:30 AM   #4
SeanB95YJ
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to me, vibes from takeoff (with a manual trans) seems more like a clutch and/or flywheel issue. when you swapped the trans, did you (or the shop) install a new clutch and associated components? how about the flywheel? is it new or did they at least resurface it?

I understand your dilemma about how much is too much... but unfortunately I think the problem is (at least with us Jeepers), once we start to THINK that, it's already "too much"... sounds like you're "almost there" and anything else that might come up could very well be an issue with ANY used vehicle (or even a new one sometimes)
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"]Sean B. - Schenectady, NY - 95 YJ, 350/700r4/NP241, JB Shorty SYE, 8.8 rear, 2" BDS, 1" homebrew shackles, Daystar 1" BL, TJ flares, 35x12.50 General Grabber AT2 on 15x10 Bart D-Truckers, Polyshield polycarbonate windshield, HD over/under crossover steering
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]swap/build thread: [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/after-almost-4-years-finally-my-own-build-swap-thread-1542284/[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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Unread 04-03-2013, 11:36 AM   #5
Beachcruiser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanB95YJ View Post
to me, vibes from takeoff (with a manual trans) seems more like a clutch and/or flywheel issue. when you swapped the trans, did you (or the shop) install a new clutch and associated components? how about the flywheel? is it new or did they at least resurface it?
I would also carefully check the trans mount & torque arm bushings/connection.

That transmission swap requires a change in mounting location from your stock skid plate. I used a later model belly pan, with the correct holes, on mine. If yours was rigged, it may be vibrating on launch.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #6
Luuca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolnmatthews View Post
At what point do you quite dumping $$$$ into the old YJ?
Never!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolnmatthews View Post
I had a rebuilt AX15 & NP231 (from a 95 YJ) this is where all my problems began. Can't seem to get rid of the roughness etc when I take off from a stop, actually kind of vibrates the whole interior of the Jeep.
If it ran fine with the old BA-10, and the change (ie Vibrations) started once you installed the AX15, then I would look at the following:

1. Hard vibrations from the start may be caused by a cracked or checked flywheel. Q: Did you have the flywheel checked and resurfaced when you made the swap?

2. The vibrations you are feeling may also be caused by a worn, bad, or misaligned clutch. Q: Did you replace the clutch when you did the trans swap?

3. Swapping froma BA-10 to an AX15 is going to require a change in mounting holes. Your stock BA-10 skid plate won't work without modifications and those mods may be causing it to bind up at the flywheel/clutch. Q: can you get a skid plate from a later model YJ that will mount up your AX-15 properly? I mean you are already going to be taking it off to remove the drop pucks.

4. Less of a probability, but the AX15 you swapped in, was it a reman unit or a used non inspected unit from another source? There may be an issue with the first gear or syncros. Q: Was the trans a re-manufactured unit bought new or ?? Q: Does it shift into 1st gear easily?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolnmatthews View Post
Sorry about the long rant, just getting tired of working on it, I know its a Jeep! (I actually do do a lot of my own work, sometimes I just don't have the time to do the major stuff like changing out the trans, etc)
If you didn't have the flywheel resurfaced and checked or you reused your clutch when you did the swap, chances are it's one of those two things and you will have to drop the trans to fix it once and for all. It's not super difficult, and it sounds like this isn't your daily driver, so you could repair it at your leisure.

Look, we all get frustrated by our YJs at times. From rusted crap to broken this or that, it all adds up. Just know we are all here to help you through it.

If all esle fails, I'll fly up and take your rig home with me at no charge.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:02 PM   #7
Flajeeper1
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I did the same upgrade to the AX15. Check your torque arm and make sure the bushings are good and it's adjusted pretty tight. I replaced motor mounts (thanks again Brown Dog!), trans mount and had the same vibration on take off. Turns out it was the torque arm. Start there. As to when to quit putting money in? Seriously, you have a jeep!
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:16 PM   #8
bogleparsons
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if you have to spend more per month than a new car payment ($500) then it's too much.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #9
lincolnmatthews
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Thanks for the thoughts & ideas! I did not spare the $$$ on anything that needed to be done, the clutch, press plate was all new. Flywheel was resurfaced, the AX15 & TC I had checked out, tranny shop replaced all brgs, schns & seals etc. Shifts ok going into 1st although a little tough going into 2nd when cold. There's no chatter from the clutch etc on take off only the cab vibrating etc. It seemed like it was under a strain to take off, ( I attributed this to the steep drive line angle, but was wrong). One of you guys mentioned that you had vibes with the rear drive line off when running on the front only, the front one spins all the time, right? Anyway thanks, will change out the MM, I did replace the rear one already, along with the stabilizer (reused the old bushings, had to build them up in length because of the drop. I do think that a skidplate out of say a 94-95 or ? as suggested would help it would eliminate the adapter from Advance then I could use the original holes in the skidplate, which may lower the drive train I believe. Anyway I guess I will keep at it, thanks. (One last thing, when I start it in the morn & its sitting in neutral it vibrates the interior when it starts. Leads me to believe that the MM maybe are shot, however there at the same angle when I was driving it with the TC drop with the lift kit installed with the old BA-10!?) Who knows
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:49 PM   #10
pete1991YJ
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yeah the later model skid would probably help - a LOT. The front drive shaft *only* spins if you're in 4x4 on a stock rig. The front shaft wasn't really meant for use on the highway, so they never botheres to balance it at the factory. You can drive a jeep around on just the front shaft if you take out the rear shaft and put it in 4x, but you will definitely feel it.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #11
Old4X
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Get the proper skid plate, forget any adaptors.

Replace both engine mounts.

Replace the transmission mount with a polyurethane mount.

Leave the torque arm off, not needed with poly mount.

Total cost around $65

And for the love of God, USE PARAGRAPHS! Holy wall of text, Batman!
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Unread 04-03-2013, 01:54 PM   #12
Flajeeper1
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Old4X, I have the rubber trans mount. Are you sure the poly doesn't need the torque arm? I had a b***h of a vibration until I put it in (yes I have new MMs and trans mount).
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Unread 04-03-2013, 02:29 PM   #13
pete1991YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flajeeper1 View Post
Old4X, I have the rubber trans mount. Are you sure the poly doesn't need the torque arm? I had a b***h of a vibration until I put it in (yes I have new MMs and trans mount).
X2, I highly recommend keeping the torque arm especially with what he went thru after the trans swap. With a poly bushing. Because there is *no* bushing that will stop that kind of vibration - eventually it will tear in half.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 03:11 PM   #14
Old4X
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You have something really wacked on your install. You say it does the same thing when you start the engine in neutral with the driveshafts removed?

If so, and your torque arm dampens it, that much load on that tiny bolt will soon strip it.

The torque arm is not needed with the poly mount. Many folks have done this mod with zero problems.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 04:24 PM   #15
Rustyred
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I think it's mm. If they are stock (20+years old) ther're done. Mine looked ok till i replaced them and they fell apart.
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