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Unread 01-20-2010, 06:51 PM   #1
supersteez
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SUA YJs- Outboarding rear shocks….Worth it?

I’m trying to research outboarding of my rear shocks vs. rear shock relocator bracket (ie DIY M.O.R.E.). This does not seem to have been done by many YJ owners.

That being said, it can be because this is: a stupid idea, will cramp the sh@! out of my rear wheel wells, and people will think I am more mentally challenged that I am when they see me driving around with a pointless modification.

Okay, I have been carefully considering my options for getting the most travel out of my rear suspension. I’m not interested in going SOA or coilovers, at least at this point.

My rear springs are rancho 2.5” springs circa 1999, no real sag that I have identified from my measurments. I also have 1” of additional lift from shackles. I don’t want to cut holes in my tub, because I run a backseat, so outboarding the rears, is my next idea.

If it will increase my suspension travel, I would consider buying new springs, but don’t want to go more than 2.5” of lift. So, if the quality of springs will make the difference, than I will make the swap.


I know that outboarding my rear shocks will require frenching in my own channel/ Ford tower, as space in my rear is very limited. This will probably be done with an 8.8, which is 1” narrower as well. I am planning to go 3.75 or 4 inches of backspacing on new rims, but may go to 12.5 inch tires. All of this should be considered in answering the questions below.

My questions are:

1. Is there any real benefit in shock performance based on the vertical ANGLING of the outboarded shock vs. a near stock angled shock (which has been raised about 2 inches to sit level with the rear axle, but also has used a M.O.R.E-type bracket to extend the upper rear mount…ie very little total shock travel distance gained).

2. For most members, is it your leaf spring travel that is limiting your setups total suspension travel? IE would running an outboarded shock that allows a shock with longer travel increase your suspension’s total travel, or would your springs limit you too much to make it worthwhile

3. Is the amount of work that this project will require worth it, IN YOUR OPINION, for a SUA YJ on leafs? If not, what would you do in my situation because I am open to suggestion. Shock mount cross bar to angle shocks inward and out, m.o.r.e. extensions, nothing?


Last edited by supersteez; 01-20-2010 at 08:31 PM..
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Unread 01-20-2010, 09:22 PM   #2
ZeroGravity
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I'll definitely follow this thread. I want to outboard my rear shocks as well for a couple reasons. First I want to lose the stupid ground clearance right under my lower shocks mounts. It would also be easier to access the mounts if I needed to work on them. Out boarding apparently contributes to better handling at highway speeds as well which is always a plus.

I'm no expert but I've read a couple good write ups. One was on Jeepforum, the other over on Pirate. Both used Ford shock towers set probably 3/4" into the frame rail (and welded of course) to prevent the tires from hitting the shocks.

I found this thread looking for information about the mount location angle, so If I find anything, I'll let you know.

EDIT: I don't know if it's worth it or not. I'm not really sure why I've seen it done on coil sprung suspensions more than leafs springs, but the coil guys are always bragging about how much more flex they have than us, so I don't see why it would be a problem.

EDITx2: From the research I have done, you have to understand how suspensions work very thoroughly so you get the full potential of your suspension without binding or any other problems.
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Last edited by ZeroGravity; 01-20-2010 at 09:33 PM..
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Unread 01-20-2010, 10:16 PM   #3
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Actually there are quite a number of people just on this board running the MORE brackets in the back.

I'm kinda waivering on the idea myself and have been putting a bit of consideration into outboarding as well. I've seen it done on TJ's but not on a YJ yet (not that it hasn't been done). I've really got no advice for you but, I'll be following along.
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Unread 01-20-2010, 10:33 PM   #4
Joe Dillard
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I have helped do a few of 'em. Some on YJ's, some on TJ's.

We frenched the frame on some of them (mainly the ones with stock or close to stock axle widths) and used F250 front towers.

On a full width, it's not as much work or as complex to do since there's lots more room.

Here's an example of what I've done (I didn't do this one). This is my friend Wally's old YJ, with Tomb Raider (Scott) sitting passenger.

Rear axle in this one was a D70.



Scotts were outboarded too (rear D60).



I know I have pics of at least one I did on a YJ that was not full width - I'll see if I can dig up those pics. They may be on another PC & not loaded to my Fototime account.
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Unread 01-20-2010, 10:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
I know I have pics of at least one I did on a YJ that was not full width - I'll see if I can dig up those pics. They may be on another PC & not loaded to my Fototime account.
That would be outstanding. The TJ is basically the same though right? I think there's a pretty detailed write up on here for a TJ.
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Unread 01-20-2010, 10:47 PM   #6
Joe Dillard
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Yea, mrblaine over on the TJ forum is who pioneered the outboarding swap on TJ's. I have helped do a few with him at his house but it's been a while.

He use to have pics on his website. I'll check.....
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Unread 01-21-2010, 11:12 AM   #7
supersteez
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On the outboarding projects that people have seen/completed where frenching of the frame was used, did you use ford towers or poly performance towers? Has anyone you ever made your own towers? Or used the combination of tube french and a hoop?

The ford towers are cheap, but I have read mrblaine( http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ne...rmance-236418/ ) mentioning this about the ford towers:

The Ford towers are great if you are doing conventional bushing shocks.

If you are doing the ends with the spherical bearings and misalignment bushings similar to the Fox, you have to heavily modify the top of the tower to make them work. More trouble than it's worth almost.

This thread on Pirate has some pics of a guy who just notched the frame (on a TJ, of course) bent up some hoops:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...+shocks&page=5

Last edited by supersteez; 01-21-2010 at 11:36 AM..
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Unread 01-21-2010, 12:34 PM   #8
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Great pics Joe, you must have a nice camera
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Unread 01-21-2010, 12:45 PM   #9
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When I did the SOA on my old YJ, I removed the shocks to measure for new ones.
I can honestly say that with Old Man Emu leafs, SOA, the shocks did not restrict axle travel one bit. With the shocks on and off, I had the same travel.
No gain to be had IMHO, and I could pretty much guarantee that the Old Man Emu leafs SOA flexed a lot more than your current set up.
I did use the MORE shock extenders though too.
Only difference I could see is that I had the room for longer shocks, due to the SOA height, but I honestly do not see you gaining any travel by outboarding the shocks.
I know Scott did his that way for ease of install after the axle swap, I know this because we did them at my house...
Here is my old YJ, with MORE shock extenders and SOA.
frtflexweb.jpg

sideflxweb.jpg
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Unread 02-23-2010, 04:48 PM   #10
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So all in all is it worth it on a SUA rig??? I have heard from tj guys it makes it handle a lot better and handle woops and what not better? Also I am very interested in seeing some pictures of a stock width axle or 8.8 with outboarded shocks....I don't see it as being that much more work while doing the 8.8 swap.... Your relocatiing everything anyways the only extra work would be with the frame rails and towers which isn't all that much more considering you doing an axle swap well in my case anyways. Also cost wise its not all that much more either....but is it worth it or is it better just to stick to stock locations....


Also another question since I'm at it...I have seen a lot of guys triangulate the rear shocks. They point both inward and attach to a cross section bar they normally weld in. What are the pros vs cons on doing this
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Unread 02-24-2010, 09:37 AM   #11
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Bump for info... I'm probably doing an 8.8 and lift within the year and this could be on my list as well! It sounds promising at this point.
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Unread 02-24-2010, 11:19 AM   #12
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not sure if its worth it or not.. but i read that its alot more stable when you outboard your rear socks

i was looking at the pics i saved and found a pic of outboarded shocks on a SUA jeep, he used the gen right rear shock mounts

specs on the jeep:
R/E Extreme 2.5" Springs
Rancho 12" F 14" Rear
37" MTR' (she's a daily driver)
D30 with Chromos and a Lockrite
Currie Rock Jock in the rear with a Detroit
Atlas 4spd

pic:
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Unread 02-24-2010, 11:36 AM   #13
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Dang! Seeing all those old pics that I saw when they were first posted makes me feel even older than I am!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobersbro View Post
So all in all is it worth it on a SUA rig???
Also another question since I'm at it...I have seen a lot of guys triangulate the rear shocks. They point both inward and attach to a cross section bar they normally weld in. What are the pros vs cons on doing this
Anywho, I'm with Martin on this one. I have the MORE ext., as does Joe, IIRC. and they work just fine. I think the key here is SUA. IMO this sums it up...
Quote:
If it will increase my suspension travel, I would consider buying new springs, but don’t want to go more than 2.5” of lift. So, if the quality of springs will make the difference, than I will make the swap.
An SUA spring will only flex/droop so much and I think the MORE ext. in this case would be more than adequate. Even with my taller springs, I've pulled and pushed on my leafs to double make sure my shocks were not limiting travel. This combined with only using an 8.8, I'm not sure it would be worth all the trouble???

As far as going to a cross section bar like this / \... they work just fine and IMO you could go either way. But some are of the opinion that a shock more lined up with the direction of the up and down travel of the axle is preferable. I think as long as the angle like this, /, is not too sever, then it would perform as well as straight up. Again, I've seen mixed opinions on this.



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Unread 02-24-2010, 01:14 PM   #14
supersteez
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Hey,

These comments are great., especially those specific to the SUA and the possibility of a narrow rear axle.

These are the kinds of opinions and insight which I am hoping to solicit.

Thanks for all who have given input, and, of course, those who will continue too.
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Unread 02-24-2010, 01:44 PM   #15
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I considered this too when I extended my wheel base in the rear. My only concern was cutting the frame and welding the new mount in. I know it may be as strong or stronger but, the difference between a TJ and a YJ with leaf springs is there is going to be alot more stress in that area with the leafs.
Just my 2 cents.
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