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Unread 02-07-2013, 09:59 PM   #151
W_A_Watson_II
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Will do. If present what would cause it?

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1993 Jeep YJ 4.6L Stroker (jeep.wawii.com)
1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37, 1964 Dodge W500 Power Wagon Fire Truck
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:06 PM   #152
lucdog
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My thought on this has to do with the 0.055" plug gap. That seems big, could carbon traces have developed , from try to jump that big of a gap. Possibly bled off to the next terminal on the cap?
I know carbon traces shouldn't be a problem because of the lack of carbon black in the red cap. But ya never know.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:07 PM   #153
lucdog
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Haha , as usual I have more questions than answers

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #154
lucdog
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Ok. One more thing. A Dedicated ground to the base of the distributor. :-)
Either to the base Or at least to the hold down bolt

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 05:54 AM   #155
W_A_Watson_II
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My cap is actually black, the only picture I quickly found was red. Will check it out and look at the ground as well.
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1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37, 1964 Dodge W500 Power Wagon Fire Truck
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Unread 02-08-2013, 06:50 AM   #156
lucdog
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Good morni g Will.



image-3583898100.jpg

Here's a link from where the picture came from.
http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/im...park_plugs.jpg
Third one down on the right side.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-08-2013, 07:24 AM   #157
W_A_Watson_II
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Bill THANKS! Based on this and some searching on High Speed Glazing I found this great post: Ultimate Spark Plug Reading Thread


It shows that based on my electrode color going to the plug base, I need a colder plug.

On High Speed Glazing the common comments I read were:
APPEARANCE: Glazing appears as shiny coating on the plug, either yellow or tan In color.
CAUSE: During hard, fast acceleration, plug temperatures rise suddenly. Deposits from normal combustion have no chance to fluff off; instead, they melt on the insulator forming an electrically conductive coating which causes misfiring.
RECOMMENDATION: Glazed plugs are not easily cleaned. They should be replaced fresh set of plugs of the correct the condition recurs, using plugs with a heat range one step colder may cure It.


Now to determine the correct lower heat range plug.

Again Thanks!
Will
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1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37, 1964 Dodge W500 Power Wagon Fire Truck
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Unread 02-08-2013, 06:04 PM   #158
W_A_Watson_II
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Still have a miss in the Jeep after going another range colder on the plugs

After installing the NGK BKR7E-11 (Gaped at 0.044Ē) I took the Jeep out for a spin. A/F Ratio seems even more stable. However it started missing even before it warmed up. Might have just been new plugs, but nope. A few miles down the road I got on it. Missed at high RPM, at 4,000+ RPM, A/F ratio in 10-11.5 range (rich).

Here is a video, you donít hear the miss in 2nd at 5,000 RPM and 80 MPH:

Here is another video of the same, I let off the throttle so it would shift into 3rd, as it wasnít in the previous video:

Here are three videos at road speed 50-55 MPH, you can kind of hear the miss and see the A/F ration swing left (rich) when it does, at least thatís how I read it:

Below is a random plug (#5) I pulled after getting home. Engine was well warmed, and missing, and running at 2,250 RPM when I shut it off and pulled the plug.


Now I wonder where I go next? A/F Ratio at High RPM is Rich, and in the normal range while driving, so Iím still not convinced the miss is fuel related.

Thanks,
Will
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1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37, 1964 Dodge W500 Power Wagon Fire Truck
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Unread 02-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #159
W_A_Watson_II
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Tried the stock Champion Plugs with out and with the old coil, and the miss is still there. The 2nd gear 5K miss in the one video where it doesn't shift to third is the rev limiter, but I do still get misses under hard acceleration once the miss appears.

With the stock plugs fresh I started it and a miss was quickly there, then as the engine warmed up it was gone. several miles and good runs and all seemed well. That is until I ran for a short distance in 2nd at 3,500 RPM and 55 MPH, as soon as I put it up into 3rd, the miss was there and very prominent.

Once back at the shop I let it idle and checked for misses and any leaks, none. I rev it up to about 4,200 RPM and the miss is there, drop back to idle and it's gone. I've shut it off at 2,000 RPM, and will pull the plugs for one last check before I start looking else where for the issue.

Frustrated,
Will
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Unread 02-09-2013, 05:45 PM   #160
W_A_Watson_II
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In going back over my notes and research, and I think the plug recommendation I got from the Strocker community is off. They recommended the NGK BKR6E-11, but it's tip did not protrude as much as the stock plugs. In doing some part number cross referencing and deciphering I thought I needed the NGK BPR6ES-11 as it's a Projected Insulator Type plug like the stock Champions. However it wasn't. So I went back with a set of stock Champion RC12LYC Plugs. The miss started again cold, but it cleared up. was it because of just being new plugs? Well no, the miss did eventually come back just as before. I tried the old coil and the miss was still there. I pulled the plugs, again with a hot engine and running 2,250 RPM. the looked OK to me, except for a small imperfection on plug #3's insulator, a defect/crack? It's getting replaced.



The fuel pressure gauge test kit was out on load at the Auto Parts store, so I decided to go ahead and install the fuel pump anyway. The pump looked to be the original 1993 Bosch pump, and I found some debris in side the strainer, so it might be having problems. Well, the new "I call generic" pumps the auto parts store had in stock fit like crap, the pump was loose and would surly rattle. So I'm waiting on a new Bosch which I should have tomorrow. I spoke with the machine shop that did my block/head work, and the guys at the parts stores, and they suspect I might have an intermittent air leak. guess as soon as I get the pump back in and re-install the stock plugs, I'll see what I can track down next.



Will
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Unread 02-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #161
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Before I go on my rant about Aftermarket Parts Engineers and Bean Counters (My degree is in Engineering so I can rant), I think I might have to concede and say I'm running Lean. Fist I want to know who the (Expletive removed) Engineer was/is and the (Expletive removed) Bean counter who probably forced the Engineers had to make a (Expletive removed) generic fuel pump and sell it as an exact fit that in no way fits the vehicle! Even the Bosch replacement unit (The 3rd one I tried to make fit) fit's kind of crappy! It's in and at least it's snug and fits good enough that it isn't loose in the sending/pump bracket. Not the easiest to install, but it's in and working, quietly.

I also changed the fuel filter, but first a warning. If you own a Bone Creeper, and are in a low humidity area, or like me keep the shop humidity low, be very carful of electrostatic electricity. Every time I get on the creeper, and go under a vehicle, as soon as I touch the vehicle, ZAP! I got hit so hard the other day, my finger still hurts. I had to be sure to not let a spark fly while changing the filter, as fuel always runs out of the line and starts evaporating.


I re-installed the Champion Plugs, and a new one to replace the defect in #3.

Well, after this, it was still raining and wet out, so I backed the Jeep up to the door and opened it enough to vent the exhaust and shop. I started the Jeep and let it idle for a long time, and a few off misses, but all was well. A/F Ration was 14.6-15. After everything was good, I revved it up and held it at 2K, 3.5K and back to 2K RPM a couple of time.

On the third time, I got the miss I'd had before. So I held the throttle between 3 & 3,500 and started checking for air leaks or any other issues. None found. Then I saw something, and got worried, the exhaust header was glowing red, and bright. I let off the rpm, let her cool down and shut her off. Oil is still right on the mark, and as clean as brand new oil, no issues seen anywhere. I know with no air flow over the engine, they can sometime glow, but I suspect I must indeed be running lean. The A/F Ration gauge was showing 14.7-15 at these RPM's.


So I will order the Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator. Do you guys recommend the HESSO or the Leigh Performance unit?

I'll also order/build the MAP Sensor Adjustable Voltage Adjuster.

Now what should I set these at to start off with?


Thanks,
Will
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Unread 02-11-2013, 02:46 PM   #162
W_A_Watson_II
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I've done some research and learned that the distributor pick up coil (or what ever you want to call it) doesn't affect spark timing, it's used for injector timing. Wrangler Forum- How/Where to adjust the timing? So I Indexed the Distributor. As you will see in the pictures, the distributor would have been sending the injection pulse just a little late. I opened up the slot on the "ears" and re-installed the distributor properly indexed.


Took the Jeep out for a leisurely drive, no high RPM's or hard accelerations. It did miss some after I started it and drove it out of the shop, but shrugged that off to the computer learning the slightly new curve. And again, after everything got well warmed and up to operating temperature it started missing again. When it did this I pulled off the road to a safe place, and opened the hood. At idle all was fine, revved it up and the miss started. Held it there for a little bit, and could see the header starting to glow red. So I headed back home. After this mornings test with the re-indexed distributor, it looks and seems to me that the fuel was still getting into the exhaust manifold and burning there. This to me it was still a spark/timing issue. So since I'd been through everything else except the computer and CPS that is as you see above where I went. SilverXJ over at Jeep Strokers yesterday suggested: "after having ruled everything else out that I should check the CPS as a weak signal as the engine revs higher and the sensor gets hotter could be the problem." Thinking through it, if it's spark timing related, perhaps the new CPS sensor was bad. Could it be getting hot and causing the problem? So I grabbed the old one and pulled the new one out. You can see that it looks like the flywheel has rubbed across the face of the new CPS, and a small sliver torn loose. The new one has no slot for adjustment, just a hole, unlike the old one that has a slot.


I just completed a 26 mile trip in the Jeep, and for the first 3/4's of it I just cruised, no hard accelerations or high RPM's. No misses like I had this morning, so I did the 3,500 RPM at 55 MPH for a while and then shifted to 3rd, and unlike before, still no misses. Next I did a couple of hard accelerations, and even at 5,000 RPM and an 80 MPH (it still didn't shift to 3rd until I let up a little), still mo misses. I'll have to adjust the cable a little more to see if it correct the shift issue, if not I'll let the transmission guy address it. So after the 26 miles and no miss, it looks like, and Lord please let it be, the CPS was indeed was the problem. The A/F Ratio seems to average out about 14.4/14.5 at cruse and idle. On hard accelerations, it doesn't go as rich as before, and seems to hit 11.0 at 5,000 RPM. Guess I'll stay on my old factory CPS until it fails. Guess that's what I get for replacing parts that were still good. The 1" body lift sure made it easy to change it though.

I want to thank everyone here who has helped, not just Silver XJ. This is a great community and I've sure learned a lot and I'm sure there is more to learn.

Will
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Unread 02-11-2013, 03:44 PM   #163
pete1991YJ
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Wow. Can you give some detail about the distributor indexing, I have not heard of this before. Thanks - and your build is amazing! I just learned a few things in your last few posts!
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Unread 02-11-2013, 03:52 PM   #164
W_A_Watson_II
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See this link:



My fuel injectors were probably a bit late, doing this helped have them fire at the correct time.

Yea, I've learned a lot as well, and Thanks for following.

Will
My "Transmission Job" & Stroker Build (My WEB Site)
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Unread 02-11-2013, 07:34 PM   #165
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Very cool Will, glad you figured it out!
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