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Unread 01-27-2013, 08:36 PM   #136
caoboy
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That's exactly how I'm building my jeep!! Tan with black accents. Looking great!!

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Unread 02-04-2013, 04:33 PM   #137
W_A_Watson_II
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The weather warmed up, and I put 33 miles (for a total of 37) on the Jeep on the road today after installing the side markers. The Jeep exhaust volume has moderated downward, and the A/F ration is a little better. At road speed it's bouncing between 14.3 and 15.5, it does bounce more than I expected. It did developed a miss at speed after it warmed up, but it wasn't predictable or re-creatable or always there. Also on hard full throttle acceleration, it also misses some above 4,000 RPM before it shifts. I'm thinking I might have a fuel delivery/pressure issue.

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Unread 02-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #138
W_A_Watson_II
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Took the Jeep to the Exhaust Shop to get a 2.5" tail pipe made and installed. I'll need to trim the rear off so it doesn't extend beyond the fuel tank and spring, but they were able to tuck it up high enough. The bends do add some restriction, and the addition of the tail pipe, along with some run time on the engine/muffler has toned it down so it's not as loud. I also need to install the tail pipe band clamp once I trim the tail pipe. I did experience the miss again, after the engine get up to good running temperature. I watched the A/F ratio, but it bounced both high and low on the miss. Also the miss was there occasionally at idle, so I'm think perhaps more plugs than fuel.


Will
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Unread 02-07-2013, 02:50 PM   #139
W_A_Watson_II
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First, it's amazing how much quieter the Jeep is with the tail pipe and the plug gap closed down a little. It still sounds good, just not as bad a$$ as before.
I pulled the tail pipe out after marking where to trim the exit end. I then cut and cleaned up the ends and pipe before painting it. Once dry, the Pipe was re-installed and checked for exit clearances. As long as nothing gets between the spring and fuel tank it should be relatively safe.
Based on how the Jeep ran yesterday, and that the miss seems to come on after the engine was well warmed up, and the miss was present at any engine load/speed and not consistent, I believe the issue is plugs and not fuel. So I pulled the plugs. They were a strong 0.055" gap that I initially set them at, and looked decent. Plug 3 looks whiter, while plug 5 is darker, but "I" don't see anything that tells me anything. Based on others knowledge and comments, I decided to close the gap up some, so I re-gaped them to a strong 0.040". So I start the Jeep up, and the A/F ratio gauge doesn't bounce around nearly like it did before at idle. So I take it out for a test drive. Everything seems good, the Jeep sounds quieter, and the A/F ratio gauge doesn't bounce near as bad as it did before, even at engine speed. Well, once the Engine was well warmed, the miss was back, and again at all engine loads and speeds. Not consistent like it's a single cylinder, and it's very very bad at had acceleration once it tries to exceed 4,000 RPM. I watched the A/F ratio gauge and when it misses now it seems to bounce more to the rich side, suggesting (to me) that it's still a plug problem. The plugs are NGK BKR6E-11 (yes "E", not "3" as written on the cardboard). The stock plugs would be Champion RC12LC4. Based on what I've found the NGK's I'm using are one temperature range cooler, which is what was a recommended starting point for my stoker. So now do I go one more step cooler?


Will
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Unread 02-07-2013, 08:21 PM   #140
lucdog
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A couple things Will. Is it possible one of the plug wires is bad, being worse at higher rpm. Total timing advance at 4000 rpm. I know it's computer controlled but is there a way to check?
To me, the only plug that looks good is #3, it's a nice tan color #5 is the worse. If it were me, I would start with the stock plug and work from there. If there the same plugs as the Rubicon and they don't work, I'll buy them from you. I could also use them in the 1994 for the daughter.

More on the plugs. It's my understanding when reading color you want to run/drive fairly hard, stop and Immediately pull the plugs. There is also another way to check. That's the color of the porcelain that you can't see at the bottom. Matt1981cj7 thread (CJ section) has a description of cutting the threads off and leaving the porcelain. You might send him a PM . It's a long thread to look thru. It's "the worlds ugliest AMC 360" IIRC
Your A/F O2 sensor is it heated. Or close enough to the manifold to not be?

These are my WAG's

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 08:47 PM   #141
W_A_Watson_II
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Bill,

Yea, the timing is fixed. It's runs great ahd well when getting on it hard, all the way thru 5K RPM and shifts with no misses, that is until everything is at running temp. It's not just he engine at temp, but a little while after that.
I was worried #3 was lean, and 5 rich. But I'm not a plug reader.
Stock Plugs are Champion are RC12LC4, I'd gone one setting cooler based on others recommendations. I just can't find any references to engine miss and plug temperature range.

I've read the same run the engine hard, shut it off at 2K RPM and then pull the plugs, that that is the only way to properly read them.

The A/F gauge O2 is heated, so it's not waiting on engine heat to have it read properly. It is further down stream than I'd liked, but to have it in a "safe" location from potential damage I figured since it wasn't controlling anything was OK.

Just trying to figure out which plugs to try next, or what other things to try. Changing Plug #1 is a pain in the *** with the on board air compressor, and the Live Wire plug wires are not easy to pull back off the plugs.

Will
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #142
lucdog
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There is the Possibility of one of the sensors being bad, possibly the temp sensor.
As you know anything I post on this is a uneducated thought, when it comes to fuel injection.
Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:34 PM   #143
W_A_Watson_II
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Temp sensor, well there was one I didn't replace, the one that's in the thermostat housing, just about every other sensor has been replaced. However when the gauge shows the engine is at operating temperature the engine still runs good, that is until a while later once every thing seems to be warmed up (all engine compartment warmed up). I'm stumped.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:43 PM   #144
lucdog
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Do you rember when I had problems with my 305 at flat nasty? The engine would idle fine, as soon as a load was put on it either ran like crap , or would die. The problem ended up being a crimp connector crimped so tight it broke over 1/2 the wire strands, one by one the rest broke until it wouldn't start.

So I'm saying check all the connections, including grounds.

I forget Will does it have a external coil? It could be breaking down with the heat, Especially if its lying on its side and not upright. Remember new parts can be bad right out of the box!

At least that seem to be the case with CJ's . O, is it throwing any codes?

Bill
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:44 PM   #145
lucdog
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Are you still up Like to send you a text

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:48 PM   #146
W_A_Watson_II
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Will do. Yes new coil, but it's not liquid filled like those gold old ones, it is however mounted to the side of the block, and could becoming heat saturated. The old coil was badly cracked, but might try it to see if it does the same thing with it. No check engine light on, but I've not read the codes to see if there are any.
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1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:51 PM   #147
lucdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucdog
Are you still up Like to send you a text

Bill
E-core coil?
__________________
1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:57 PM   #148
W_A_Watson_II
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Yes I think that's what they are called. It's part of my Performance Distributors Firepower Ignition Kit - Part No: 17610.60X

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1946 & 49 Dodge Power Wagon, 1953 Dodge M37
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:58 PM   #149
pete1991YJ
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Yah I would go a step colder just based on the #3 plug. If the O2 sensor is reading OK they are burning off a lot, so still a tad too hot.
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Unread 02-07-2013, 10:58 PM   #150
lucdog
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You might check under the distributor for cross firing.

Bill
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1957 WILLYS pickup, needs work.
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac trail Jeep.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7 pretty weekend and sometimes to work Driver in the summer, My first rebuild, if the Q-trac and 5 are broke, this one is the one to take. its just as capable as the other 2, except nice paint.
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 1 ton axles, great 360/727, and a big a$& tree fell on it .
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ conversion.
2005 TJ Rubicon.
2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, Mrs. LUCDOG's DD.
Lots of parts not for sale, i'm a hoarder.
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