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Unread 06-25-2013, 06:29 AM   #16
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nashville, Tn
Posts: 40
It makes senses for me to get these types of parts from them but I guess it slipped my mind.

I tested the primary and secondary coil resistances prior to installing it, and they both were within spec. I did get the replacement I bought installed and I seem to have the same behavior but it has gotten more difficult to have happen.

Once I got it installed though, I immediately had the same stalling behavior after 5 minutes of idle. Tried to immediately start it back up and it would not start. I then tested for spark on one of the wires and was getting a really slow orange/red spark. After letting the jeep rest for 10 minutes, I tested the same wire again and the spark was a fast white/light blue. Of course, it started up right away after resting. I wanted to test the spark one more time after getting it to stall but this time, it idled in the driveway without any problems for 30-40 minutes before I just shut it down. Going to test it again after work.

If it does continue to stall and I see bad spark again at the wire, what would be the next things to check? Anyone know how likely it would be for the new coil to be a junker even if the resistances test correctly?

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Unread 06-25-2013, 08:46 AM   #17
Que89YJ
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Slim to none to have 2 with the same issue. How about it arcing over on the wires. the fact you are seeing differences in the arc is pointing to an issue in the ignition system. Try using a spray bottle with water and spray around the ignition system. Look for arcing, it helps to look when its a little darker in the evening. Check the cap and rotor. You said you replaced the cps, what else have you replaced?
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Unread 06-25-2013, 02:24 PM   #18
Tblair23221
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Nothing else besides the crankshaft sensor, alternator, and ignition coil has been replaced recently. In attempting to fix the issue, I have given the throttle body and IAC a good cleaning as well. About two years (around 2500 miles) ago I replaced the spark plugs and wires and some other unrelated stuff (fuel filter, fuel pump, oil and temp sensors, and battery).

I will try the spray bottle approach once it gets darker out.
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Unread 06-26-2013, 06:35 AM   #19
Tblair23221
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The stalling problem was a bit more reproducible last night. I again checked the spark both after it stalled and would not start and again after it cooled off and would start. Both times the spark appeared to be slow and orange/red in color. I was kinda surprised about the behavior once it cooled off since before the spark looked good once I had let it cool off for 15-20 minutes. Once it got dark, I sprayed down the plug wires, distributor cap, and coil but did not see any arcing. Got a bit frustrated last night so I never took a look at the cap and rotor to see if there was any corrosion that could cause the weak looking spark so I guess I will take a look at that tonight.
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Unread 06-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #20
idaholtby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tblair23221 View Post
The stalling problem was a bit more reproducible last night. I again checked the spark both after it stalled and would not start and again after it cooled off and would start. Both times the spark appeared to be slow and orange/red in color. I was kinda surprised about the behavior once it cooled off since before the spark looked good once I had let it cool off for 15-20 minutes. Once it got dark, I sprayed down the plug wires, distributor cap, and coil but did not see any arcing. Got a bit frustrated last night so I never took a look at the cap and rotor to see if there was any corrosion that could cause the weak looking spark so I guess I will take a look at that tonight.
While you have the distributer cap removed, grab ahold of the rotor and see if it wiggles side to side. There should be zero play side to side. If you have a sloppy distributor shaft, it will cause all kinds of issues. If this is the cause, it would have to be in the advanced stages of decay. Just something simple to check/rule out while you are in there.
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Unread 06-27-2013, 01:23 PM   #21
Siva283
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Could be the cam position sensor inside the distributor.
__________________
1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

[QUOTE=Magnum;14117863] I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ldso;16498409]. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Luuca;16122017]diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Overhead;17658665]this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 06-27-2013, 07:59 PM   #22
Tblair23221
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I finally got some free time again and took a look at the distributor. The cap appears to be in OK shape compared to images of broken ones I could find. The internal posts had some minor wear marks and were a bit corroded but nothing that a quick hit with sandpaper did not clean up.





I cleaned up the corrosion on rotor and posts but still had problems stalling after a few minutes.

As for any wiggle, I really do not know how much is normal as this is really my first time messing with a distributor. When holding the rotor, the piece it connects into does turn a slight bit in a circle (clockwise not side to side)..maybe 5-10 degrees or so back and forth.
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Unread 06-27-2013, 08:30 PM   #23
idaholtby
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Seriously,.... you can rotate the rotor 5-10 degrees? There should be no slop side to side at all. But also, you should not be able to rotate the shaft. Is this rotational play between the rotor and the shaft, or does the distributor shaft rotate this amount as well?
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Unread 06-30-2013, 11:15 AM   #24
Tblair23221
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I had a more knowledgeable than myself friend look at what I was saying was moving in the distributor area, and he said where I saw the movement was OK. At that point, my last option before taking it to a shop was to check the fuel pressure even though I had just replaced the fuel pump and lines about 2 years ago. Sure enough, as it starts to stumble and stall, the pressure drops from 32 to the 20's and final down under 10. The first two times I captured it, the fuel pump appeared to restore pressure right away after turned the ignition off and back on. Once I got it to the point where it would not start back up, the pressure would never move up and I could not hear that noise that I now guess is the fuel pump starting up.

I am going to first replace the fuel filter and hope that is the problem, but I doubt it is. If not, any suggestions on whether I should break down and try to get the replacement from the dealership or just cross my fingers on another replacement from the auto parts store?
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Unread 07-02-2013, 05:35 PM   #25
Tblair23221
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I was in the process of trying to run a little bit more fuel out of my tank before I start to siphon the rest tomorrow and I noticed something weird that I did not notice prior. Whenever my jeep is not going to start (or about to stall), I can tell by the fuel gauge pegs all the way to the full side even though I only have about half a tank left. I was able to duplicate it multiple times tonight where I would turn the ignition to the point where the fuel pump would start and if the gauge went to the half mark, it would start right up. If it pegged full, it would not.

I am still going to siphon the fuel and drop the tank this weekend but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas that could explain the gauge behavior and how it indicated when the jeep would not start.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 08:20 PM   #26
Tblair23221
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Think I found the reason for the gauge and fuel pump. Found some other posts about the fuel gauge and they indicated a bad ground for the fuel pump. Just need to find where mine is as I have read some say it is by the e-brake and others behind the battery.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 04:24 AM   #27
Siva283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tblair23221 View Post
Think I found the reason for the gauge and fuel pump. Found some other posts about the fuel gauge and they indicated a bad ground for the fuel pump. Just need to find where mine is as I have read some say it is by the e-brake and others behind the battery.
Cut thee ground near the pump and ground it to the frame. Its a popular mod and works well

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__________________
1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

[QUOTE=Magnum;14117863] I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ldso;16498409]. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Luuca;16122017]diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Overhead;17658665]this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 07-04-2013, 08:06 AM   #28
Tblair23221
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So I siphoned most of the gas out of the tank last night before I take it down this weekend. I do have a question about the fuel pump ground though. If it is not grounded, will it definitely not work? I ask because before I siphoned the gas, I cleaned up what I thought was the ground wire by the oil stick (wire matched other threads I read bein black with yellow tracer). The car started but the same pressure and gauge problem happened after a few minutes so to test it was the right wire I just removed it from the ground post and the car still started up and the gauge worked properly.

I just want to make sure I can isolate the root cause before I go in and replace a fuel pump that might actually be fine.
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Unread 07-04-2013, 04:00 PM   #29
Siva283
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1995 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Falling Waters, WV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tblair23221
So I siphoned most of the gas out of the tank last night before I take it down this weekend. I do have a question about the fuel pump ground though. If it is not grounded, will it definitely not work? I ask because before I siphoned the gas, I cleaned up what I thought was the ground wire by the oil stick (wire matched other threads I read bein black with yellow tracer). The car started but the same pressure and gauge problem happened after a few minutes so to test it was the right wire I just removed it from the ground post and the car still started up and the gauge worked properly.

I just want to make sure I can isolate the root cause before I go in and replace a fuel pump that might actually be fine.
The fuel pump is normally grounded by the parking brake pedal. The pump absolutely will not run if its not grounded.

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__________________
1995 YJ. 2 inch BDS Spring lift. 1 inch shackle lift. 1.25 inch JKS Body Lift 33x12.5x15's. Engo 10,000 pound winch.

[QUOTE=Magnum;14117863] I gave the Jeep the required offering of $$, sweat, and blood, and everything works fine now. -- Jim[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ldso;16498409]. It started with a $200 axle, and a few thousand dollars later I was done :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Luuca;16122017]diagnose the real issue before you start going all Obama on it - spending mad cash you'll need for other important things.

Ask me how I know...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Overhead;17658665]this is also my second set of RC springs this year. I'd rather spend the money again and get something that will last.[/QUOTE]
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Unread 07-05-2013, 01:26 PM   #30
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nashville, Tn
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So I found the correct ground wire which was tucked behind the ebrake mounting bolt and verified it by grounding it and ungrounding it and seeing the gas gauge spike and then drop. I cleaned up the surface, bolt, washer, and ground wires eye but it still does not seem to be properly grounded. It will run for a bit and then stall with a spiked gas gauge, I can wiggle the wire and mounting point a bit and it fixes the ground. My question is can the amount of rust I am seeing on the ebrake assembly be causing part of the ground problem as well. It is pretty rusted up.

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