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Unread 06-16-2013, 01:20 PM   #1
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nashville, Tn
Posts: 40
Stalls and fails to start back up

Just yesterday, I starting have problems with my 91 to the point where it will just stall out and does not want to immediately start back up. It happened while I was driving yesterday and I noticed a bit of hesitation about 10 minutes into my drive. At first I thought I just imaged it as it just lasted 1 second. A minute later it happened again but was more pronounced. I turned around and headed home with hopes of figuring it out. During this time, I noticed my flashers did not want to properly come on and the voltage gauge was hovering at the tip of the red area. Of course, it finally completely stalled a minute or two after I had turned around and did not want to start back up.

While waiting for a tow back home, I tried to start it every 5 minutes or so but not luck. After about a 15 minute tow ride back up, of course it started back up but when I checked the voltage on the battery is was low and it did not appear the alternator was charging it back up. I charged it back up overnight and took off the alternator to have it tested at the auto parts store. I took it to two stores just to make sure, but both of them said the alternator failed the test. At this point, I figured I knew what the problem was and picked up a new alternator and put it in. It started right now and I could see around 14.1 volts when running with no extra electronics on (lights, radio, vent all off). I let it idle for about 15 minutes in the driveway and there were no problems. At this point, I just wanted to max out the electronics to make sure everything was fine. With everything on, the volts were still around 14.1 when running. I wanted to let it run this way for a few minutes to see if there was any drop over time so I went inside for 5 minutes only to find the Jeep had stalled. I got in and started it back up and it stalled again within 5 seconds of starting.

It appeared I did have a bad alternator but that did not seem to be the cause of the random stalls. About 2-3 years ago, I had stuttering problems with itand replaced the fuel pump but this just does not feel the same. Before it would just sputter due to low fuel pressure but never actually completely stall out.

I checked the codes and all I got was the exected: 12 (battery disconnected recently), 33 (I don't have AC), and 55 (end of codes).

Does anyone have suggestions on what to check? I had one friend suggest the distributor but I am not familiar if that matches the symptoms. When I bought the Jeep about 3 years ago, that was one of the things I did not replace. At that time, I did replace the fuel filter, fuel lines, spark plugs, and wires when I was trying to determine my previous stuttering problem.

Any suggestions would be great!

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Unread 06-17-2013, 07:33 AM   #2
Que89YJ
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 14,571
It sounds like the crank position sensor. No easy way to test since it is intermittant. Bite the bullet and replace it.
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Unread 06-17-2013, 08:12 AM   #3
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nashville, Tn
Posts: 40
Thanks. I am going to try to find some time tomorrow to replace it.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 07:47 AM   #4
Tblair23221
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Is there any trick at getting at the sensor? I can see it from both under and above but am having lots of problems getting my socket on the two bolts. Not sure if it is just a pain to get to or if there is something else I should be doing first to get better access to it.
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Unread 06-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #5
Tblair23221
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Finally was able to squeeze my hands to get the second bolt off and replaced the crankshaft position sensor but I continue to have the same problem. It started up fine but after 2 minutes of idling it stalled out. I let it sit for a few minutes and it started right but up and ran long enough for me to get about half a mile before stalling again. This time it would not start back up. I let it sit for about 5 minutes and it started right back up and was able to get it back home without any problems.

Since I am still not getting any self-diagnostic codes indicating a problem, does anyone else have a suggestion? Would an ODB I scanner show anything that would not show in the self-diagnostics?

Earlier I also went ahead and cleaned the throttle body and IAC again but they were still pretty clean from when I did it 2 years back (not a daily driver). I am not going to have time to work on it until this weekend but I was going to rent a kit to test the fuel pressure to see if there is any indication of a pressure drop right before it stalls. Anyone else have suggestions on potential causes?
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Unread 06-18-2013, 03:34 PM   #6
idaholtby
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Your initial problem was a bad Alt that failed to provide proper charge voltage to the battery. You since fixed this. I have to ask,... what now is the voltage at the battery with the engine running? Does it match the output from the alternator? When the alt goes bad, the engine is left to draw on the battery.... as voltage draws low, the current increases. This can cause fuses F8 or F4 to blow in the PDC. Both are 50amp fuses. Have you checked these?
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Unread 06-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #7
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Nashville, Tn
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The voltage when running was showing around 14.3 on my cheapo volt meter and does not move once I start turning on all of the electronics (lights, radio, vent, etc) after I replaced the alternator. I will check the fuses in the AM. Thanks.
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Unread 06-19-2013, 05:29 AM   #8
Que89YJ
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1989 YJ Wrangler 
 
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The cps is a common issue. Check the spark the next time it stalls and won't start. If you are not getting spark then the coil or the crank sensor are likely candidates.
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Unread 06-22-2013, 10:31 AM   #9
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
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I finally got back in town and have time to look at it again. All of the fuses under the hood by the battery appear fine.

I will show my ignorance now as I don't really know too much outside the basics of changing fluids and following directions from posts or my Haynes manual. Does it matter which plug wire I use when testing for spark? When you say coil and crank sensor are you referring to the ignition coil and crankshaft position sensor? If so, I have already replaced the crankshaft position sensor with no changes.
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Unread 06-22-2013, 10:34 AM   #10
Que89YJ
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YouTube checking for spark. Pickup is I the distributor. You have already replaced the crank sensor on top of the bell housing?
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Unread 06-24-2013, 07:12 AM   #11
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
YouTube checking for spark. Pickup is I the distributor. You have already replaced the crank sensor on top of the bell housing?
Yes I have already replaced the crank sensor on the top of the bell housing. As for checking for spark, it was not getting spark to the plug after I let it warm up and stall 2-3 times. I then noticed that it appeared the ignition coil was arcing before it stalled from a decent size crack on it. I am guessing that once it heated up, the coil would arc and not get the power to the distributor. I tried to pick up a new one last night but the only was available from the closest part store had horrible reviews of return rates. Sure enough, I tested the resistance of it before I installed it and it was already a good 30% outside of the spec ranges for the secondary coil. Needless to say I returned it and I am going to pick up a different brand from another store during lunch today. Hopefully that will fix the problem.
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Unread 06-24-2013, 07:25 AM   #12
Que89YJ
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It will. Get a good coil. There is another guy here who has been cooking the cheap ones. Spend the money.
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Unread 06-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #13
Tblair23221
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1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Nashville, Tn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que89YJ View Post
It will. Get a good coil. There is another guy here who has been cooking the cheap ones. Spend the money.
Been trying to find any posts with recommendations for decent replacements but no real luck so far besides ones that would require me to spend another $80 just on new wires as well. Seen lots of stories of bad replacements though. For now, I just picked up a duralast one from autozone and hope it solves the problem but I would love to get any recommendations.
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Unread 06-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #14
mbalog10
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re

check fuel rail pressure with tester from store. Clean IAC and test TPS too. Could also be bad wiring connections on something recently replaced.
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Unread 06-24-2013, 04:30 PM   #15
idaholtby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tblair23221 View Post
Been trying to find any posts with recommendations for decent replacements but no real luck so far besides ones that would require me to spend another $80 just on new wires as well. Seen lots of stories of bad replacements though. For now, I just picked up a duralast one from autozone and hope it solves the problem but I would love to get any recommendations.
These type of critical parts are best bought from the dealership. I know, this sucks given the price, but in today's aftermarket being flooded with cheap Chinese aftermarket parts, do it once and not risk being stranded. The cost of a tow truck getting you home will easily surpass the money saved on Chinese aftermarket parts. This is the world of today's aftermarket companies with a board of directors trying to squeeze every penny out of the company they own a stake in. There are many quality aftermarket parts available, but typically this is with upgrade equipment, not the everyday sensors, brake masters, engine sensors, clutch hydraulics, etc. With these parts, do your homework. Sometimes there are aftermarket parts that use the same source as OEM, but this is becoming increasingly rare. Search and even ask questions from those you are looking to buy from. You definitely get what you pay for with these type parts.
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