Ok, after many heated debates, at least 3 questions a week, and so on, here is what I used for the SOA conversion.
I run Old Man Emu springs, so they are quoted here, aswell as the 8.8 i have. If you have different axle/springs/shocks, I dont care, this is JUST A GUIDE for the guys that need a list to go off......
Not included are lockers, wheels/tires, upgrades to the front axle, the cost of an 8.8, and anything else not related to getting the jeep SOA.
This can't be said enough.....WELDING SKILLS ARE A MUST!!!!! If you cannot weld something thoroughly enough to be 100% safe onroad and off, do not do it!!!
Does everyone use the same parts? NO!
Can you make some of these parts yourself and save a few bucks? YES
Here is a rundown, with prices from the manufacturer.
For Mountain Offroad parts, i have had good luck with Northridge4x4.com. vendor for MORE, but cheaper prices.
TB500 - Traction Bar $235
98103 - Front axle spring perches $45
98200 - Front axle shock mounts $12.50
98500 - 8.8 mounting kit (perches,shock mounts, u bolts) $137
SH300 - Front shock hoops/extenders $84
9950 - Rear shock extenders $84
LS9081 Boomerang shackles, 3/8" lift, 2 pair $170
11/16 x 18 weld in bungs and jam nuts for tie rod/drag link $57.50
SYE Kit @$200
695940 Extended brake line kit $75
SOA steering bracket $160
4 - J1R Old Man Emu springs $380
N8068s and N8071s front and rear skyjacker nitro shocks $140
DOM tubing for new draglink and tierod @$50
CV rear driveshaft, and lenghen front driveshaft if needed $??
Someone else add it all up, I'm tired now...
I run 37's on that combination, with the fenders trimmed and homemade tube fenders, no body lift.
1998 XJ on 37's.JK Rubi axles with chromo shafts and ctm's, 4:1 transfer case, etc etc etc.
2003 Range Rover HSE, 4.4 Quad Cam.
1998 Range Rover with a 6.0 LSx
1994 YJ, 4.3/700R4/OME SOA, etc
Western Star 4900EX 4 axle.
4.3/700r4/new frame buildup (YJ).... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/swap-offically-underway-324622/
Well here is my list and as Martin said, everyones will be a little different and this is just for the SOA, not tires rims and axles. All prices include shipping and tax, this is my cost. keep in mind this took me 6 months to accumulate and i shopped around...
3.5" springs - $273 - Quadratec
4 spring perches - $35 - JF member
2 Bilstein 5125 14" travel shocks - $40 - ebay
2 BDS Hydro 13.5" travel shocks - $16 - ebay
M.O.R.E. traction bar - $56 - ebay
Prothane bushings - $50 - ebay
12 Grade 8 spring bolts - $32 l- ocal shop
8 Grade 8 u-bolts 1/2" x 7" x 2 9/16' - $55 - Dolan's welding
**** SYE - $191 - PORK with a "C"
JB steering bracket and DL - $220 - jb4x4.com
1/2" tap and die for jb knuckle - $10 - Harbor Freight
OME steering stabilizer - $18 - ebay
psngr park brake cable (for drvrs side) - $18 - O'Reilly's Auto Parts
clamps for breather hoses - $3 - Advance
ATF+4 - $15 - Advance
3/16 x12" hard brake lines and couplers - $17 - Advance
Front drive shaft from XJ - $42 - boneyard
Drive shaft cut and balanced - $50 - Savannah Drive Line
Sway bar discos - $60 - JF member
drop pitman arm - $25 - ebay
Lower shock mounts - free - guy i bought some tires from
Upper shock mounts - free - made myself
This is all i can think of right now which comes out to $1226 total for just parts and i feel like i got pretty good deals for the most part. This does not include the dana 44 and Dana 60 that i am building and the 35x15 TSLs that are going under this thing for the time being or the new tires and rims i will be buying for the 8 lug axles. This stuff adds up too quick and i don't like to think about it because i am poor
1994 YJ 4.0L 5 spd.
flowmaster,15x12 wheels & 35x15 TSLs, sway bar discos, 3.5" leaves SOA + shackles, 2" body lift, JB steering bracket, SYE, M.O.R.E. anti-wrap bar, Bilsteins 5125s up front & BDS Hydros out back, axles in the works http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...y/Image075.jpg
Here's a cut & paste I have added to several threads. I did not include prices due to requests from vendors to not disclose this information. Even if I did list it - I doubt many would believe me.
Like the others have already elluded to - but this point REALLY needs to be driven home......do ALOT of research! It will pay off big dividends and you'll be thanking yourself for going through the pains now, rather than paying the piper again due to doing things multiple times as so many have done before you.
It's also apparent you're already doing some searching by asking here - but it's going to take LOTS of homework & you really need to set some goals before you begin. PLUS, each budget is different - so knowing that right up-front will help you decide where to try to cut some expenses.
Sure, as a given, most everybody wants to do it as cheap as possible. However, for every corner that is cut, there's going to be a certain "price" to pay, or often a little less desireable result when all is said & done depending on which corners are cut or less desirable/quality parts are used or inferior techniques when dialing everything in. It's a trade-off, not to mention what you are willing to do yourself as compared to what a shop or other source/friends will be doing to pitch-in along the way.
I ended up with ~7.5" of suspension lift, but now have ~8.5" total due to a body lift I installed to help make room for an Atlas. Part of this was due to the 1.5" RE SOA leafs, the larger 8.8 axle tubes (3.25" vs 2.5" for the rear axle), the simi-tall RE anti-wrap perches, 3/8" Boom shackles, and the use of the MORE 7/16" mini riser block that comes with the MORE Steering Correction Kit. Plus, an additional 1" on top of the ~7.5" due to installing a body lift for Atlas clearance reasons.
Here's a list of some of the items that I used. Also, take into account I swapped in a Ford 8.8 rear axle at the same time.
RE 1.5" SOA front springs, PN RE1444
RE 1.5" SOA rear springs, PN RE1445
RE SOA spring bushing kit, PN RE1492
RE antiwrap spring perches, PN 1920
RE antiwrap spring perches, PN 1930
RE Weld-on shock mounts (2 kits), PN RE2020
RE U-bolts for D-30, PN RE2420
RE U-bolt kit for F8.8, 3.25"x8"x9/16", PN RE1230
Rancho RS9000 shocks, rear 2 RS9010's ~26", front 2 RS9012's ~32" (changed these out for Fox shocks)
MORE Steering correction kit, Stage 1, PN 9930
MORE front shock hoops, PN SH300
MORE rear upper shock relocation mounts, PN 9950
'99 Ford 8.8 rear axle, 31 spline, w/discs
F8.8 4.56 ring & pinion (Yukon)
Ring & pinion master install kit (bearings, shims, gear marking compound)
ARB locker, PN RD-81
31" front brake hoses (All Tubes & Hoses shop in Phoenix, AZ)
Rear hydraulic & e-brake fabed hoses/lines
Spicer yoke adapter for F8.8 w/1310 series ujoint, PN 2-2-1379
Items I installed some time after initial SOA was done:
Hand grooved 35x12.5 MT/R's
M/T 15x8" Classic II's w/3.75" backspacing
Warn 5x4.5" Hub Conversion Kit
Warn chromo D30 axle inners
MORE Traction Bar, PN TB500
Front 3/8" Booms
1" Daystar body lift
Atlas II w/5.0 gear reduction
East County new F&R HD driveshafts
Superior Axle beta tester Super 88 kit
Homebrew front axle truss
Homebrew steering box brace
Homebrew tube fenders
Fox emulsion shocks
Already installed, prior to SOA:
Drop pitman arm
JKS disco's (not really needed, tossed in trash)
M.I.T. SYE (removed & installed twin stick Atlas 5.0)
East County CV rear driveshaft
D30 4.56 gears
D30 ARB, compressor, harness & switches
Extended bump stops (ended-up being removed/tossed)
3/8" Rear Boomerangs (center support cross removed from boom's to clear reverse eye leafs)
33x12.50 bias ply TSL's (upgraded to 35 MT/R's)
I have removed the F&R stock tracbars
I removed my old 4" lift kit & it went to a new home in MO to a fellow JUer
Tired D35C, 4.56 & ARB went to a new home in San Diego for salvage parts to another fellow Jeeper
By using the RE reverse eye leafs, anti wrap perches, and the stock frame mounted rear forward bump stops, this seems to have minimized axle wrap on my set up, but only to a degree. Yes, it still does have some, but I‘ve installed a MORE traction bar & this has helped. However, the main leaf comes in contact with the bumpstop far sooner than if the leafs were wrapped in a normal fashion. Is it ideal? Nope, but it's doing the trick for now, and I'm addressing/considering other solutions in the future.
I took the more traditional approach when I decided I wanted more from my old SUA lift set-up. It worked for several years as SUA, but after considering lots of avenues & where I wanted to step towards, I decided SOA was the route for me.
I did LOTS of homework and things have turned out fairly well, and also as well as lots of others here who dig & search, make numerous phone calls, emails, PM's etc etc.
I gathered parts & did serious research for ~5 months, but it didn't stop there! I've toyed with a few other components after the SOA conversion to help dial-it-in a little better.
Sure, you're going to hear some folks say things like:
Too much $
Too much head ache
Too many steering issues
Too many brake issues
Too many axle wrap problems
I'll be too tall & my COG will suffer
My rear axle is a POS & I don't want to swap it out yet to take advantage of SOA
Too much uncertainty if all these items will work properly once installed
--Plus all sorts of other myths & reasons or sometimes excuses why SOA isn't right for them, and rightly so, it's not the end-all thing to do.
For those who are hesitant to tackle a conversion like this - it's better they go another route & hopefully they'll be happy for a while with the results they choose. A simple SUA kit where someone else has done their homework for them is the usual option, and is a good one if a quality SUA kit is used knowing it's particulars or limitations. They are 2 different animals.
SOA does the trick for me. It's been SOA for almost 6 years. In hind-sight, there's not alot I would have done differently given my budget.
'89 Wrangler, 4.0/AW4, 106" Wheelbase, SOA, custom XJ packs, 2" Body. Front High Pinion Dana 44 w/yukon super-joints, chromo inners and outers, and a Lincoln Locker. Rear Dana 60 w/Yukon 1.5" 35 Spline chomo shafts and detroit locker. 5.38 Yukon Gears. Hydro-Assist, 39.5x18" Boggers on 15x12 RockKrawler's w/ 2.75" of backspacing. Comp cut, tube fenders, custom bumpers and rock sliders, fuel cell, CB, Stewart Warner Gauges, SmittyBilt XRC8 Winch, 140 Amp CS-144 Alternator, Electric Fan, and a cooler of beer. 3897 lbs
The idea behind this thread is to gather as much information on SOA as possible and divide it by subtopic (ie steering, springs, etc.). It would be great to be able to continually add to the thread as new products become available.
If your reading this thread then you already know that the essence of an SOA lift is to place the springs over the axles instead of in the stock location underneath the axles. The results are ~5-6” of lift using stock springs depending on the age and condition of the springs. The ride is softer than a 5-6” lift spring because the springs are not arched as much. The amount of flex that is gained using flat springs is also a large factor in doing the lift.
While the essence of the lift is to put springs on top of the axle, there is so much more to be done in order for it to work properly.
Bare Minimum SOA Lift Components
(Note: This is to build a minimum, but SAFE SOA set-up.)
Spring Perches 30-35
Extended Brake Lines 80-95
CV Driveshaft 100-300
Steering Resolution 50-650
Shock Mounts 20-50
These components can make a pretty capable lift. Other components that should be added are
Traction Bar 50-360
The U-bolts and plates are a good component to upgrade to due to the torque put on the parts. 5/8” u-bolts and 3/8” – ½” plates are also good investments. The traction bar is put here because to have an SOA lift and have it pretty safe a traction bar isn’t totally necessary. But, the spring wrap from an SOA lift will add lots of wear and tear to the springs. Many add an additional main leaf (military wrap) in conjunction with a traction bar so if the main leaf breaks one should be able to limp back to the trail head. That result may be a little extreme for some, but it is not uncommon for a spring to become “S” shaped due to spring wrap.
At this point your about 750 to 2000 dollars into the lift. You’ve now got room for larger tires which is probably the reason you started this. So you can factor in your larger tires, lets so average priced 35s. That’s another 1000 dollars.
The newer tires will be great, but there is one problem. Most people still have the Dana 35 under their Jeep at this point. There is great debate about running 35s on a Dana 35. However, everyone pretty much agrees that running 35s on stock gearing, unless you’ve got a Rubi but then you probably not going SOA, is awful. If you have a 4 banger then 4 gear is pretty much a highway only gear once you get up to speed. And even then don’t try going up any hills in it. The 4.0L defiantly has more pop, but with 3.07s or 3.73s its just not getting it done. So now you need to re-gear both axles. The parts, ring and pinion set with a master install kit, run between 200 and 300 dollars an axle depending on your axles (400 to 600 total). You might as well swap axles at this point instead of deciding to go bigger later and having to redo half your Jeep. An 8.8 seems to be a happy medium for an upgrade. Depending on your location and junk yard searching skills you can find one for 150-400. Labor for a gear install runs between 400 to 600 dollars an axle for install unless you do it yourself. (See http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/te...sta/Gear_Setup for more information) So at this point the tally is 3100 to 5200 dollars.
There is the parts run down. Now you need to put it all together. Welding is a must and fabrication is needed.
You can start with either the front or rear of the Jeep. The axle perches need to be welded at the same angle as the ones used in the SUA set-up because you need the caster to be correct for steering. Once the correct angle has been determined the perches can be tacked on. You’ve spent a lot of money to get everything about the axle so you can remove the old shock mounts since you already have new ones to relocate your shock mount to above the axle. Once your sure the perches are on right burn them in and use the new plates and u-bolts to secure the springs and axle. (Note: If you haven’t removed the trac bar yet now is a good time to do so. You have leaf springs which keep the axles centered under the Jeep. No need for a relocation bracket.) To set up shocks I found the total amount of travel first and found the middle of the shock travel. I set-up the shock so it was in the middle of its travel and set up the shock mounts so I would have the most amount of up and down travel. If you want to use long travel shocks then shock hoops would be a good idea (Cost: 50-150 dollars). Brake lines need to be switched to the extended stainless brake lines.
Make a stop in the middle of the Jeep to install the SYE according to the manufacturer’s instructions. One other change that needs to take place is the way the exhaust runs. The traction bar is installed on the passenger side of the Jeep and it works well to leave the muffler above the transfer case skid for protection.
Once at the rear, the axle can be positioned under the Jeep and centered. The springs can be bolted to the axle and lower the axle onto jack stand to put weight on the Jeep. It is important to set the rear pinion angle with weight on the Jeep. The pinion should point at the fixed yoke of the transfer case. Many people use a broomstick or similar straight object to set the angle. Once the angle is set the perches can be tacked. The traction bar set-up can also be addressed now or once the perches have been fully welded. Once the traction bar has been tacked, the Jeep can be raised so the axle can be unattached so you have better position to fully weld the perches. Reattach everything and the Jeep can go back on tires. The brake line needs to be switched to the extended line. That does it. Bleed the brakes and take it for a short ride to make sure things are alright.
A traction bar prevents the springs from wrapping during acceleration. The natural reaction for the pinion under acceleration is to rotate upwards. This force causes the spring to make an “S” like shape. The traction bar prevents the pinion from rotating. A typical mount is a ladder bar having two connections on the axle side and a single connection near the transfer case using a shackle mount of some kind. Not doing a traction bar can ruin a nice weekend of wheeling by turning the spring into an “S” or breaking the main leaf.
SYE and CV Driveshaft
The topic of SOA and SYE and CV Driveshaft comes up way too much. The SYE (Slip Yoke Eliminator) is used to remove the slip yoke that come stock on all YJ Wranglers. The kit is typically used when a Jeep reaches a point where the driveshaft angles become too steep to operate without vibration. While the amount you can lift a Jeep without a SYE varies it is typically necessary at 2.5-3”. Some guys can run a 3.5” SUA lift without vibration others get vibs at 1.5”. The 2.5-3” area is a ball park. The amount of lift achieved with an SOA lift with stock springs is between 5 and 6 inches. Many times people use a transfer case drop to lower the transfer case about an inch to achieve better driveline angle and reduce vibration. A big problem with this is that even with the drop and the minimum amount of lift (~5”) the driveline angles are going to be similar to a Jeep with a 4” lift without a transfer case drop. So even with the drop the angle is still pretty severe.
There is another advantage to the SYE. If you decide to not use a traction bar and use a slip yoke with a transfer case drop then do not be surprised if the slip yoke slides all the way out of the transfer case. The pinion can rotate up enough to pull the driveshaft out of the transfer case. Because the transfer case design the way it is ATF will then spill out everywhere because the case is sealed around the yoke.
Trying to cut corners in this area is difficult. Some look to a “Hack and Tap” type SYE kit. This involves cutting the existing transfer case output shaft and using a flange adaptor to turn the output shaft into a fixed mounting location. This cost around the same amount as a full SYE because you need the adaptor which will seal the transfer case near the output shaft. This job is done by the slip yoke in a stock set-up. A TJ transfer case is sealed before the driveshaft and is cheaper than a set-up for a YJ. Another benefit of the full SYE set-up is the increased spline count in the in new transfer case output shaft.
The CV driveshaft is necessary to deal with the larger angles of the lift. Even if your driveshaft was long enough to use with the SYE there is no slip in the shaft. The shaft slides in and out to allow for changes in the distance between the pinion and the output shaft of the transfer case. This was accomplished in the old set-up through the slip yoke. Any change in distance the yoke would slide on the output shaft. Without slip when the Jeep flexes parts will break because there is no way to account for the change in distance.
There are a couple of ways to go about this. The first is to order a driveshaft from a vendor. Most likely they will want the distance between the yokes of the pinion and the transfer case. It comes in the mail and you bolt it on. The other option is to have a front 4WD XJ shaft cut down to the correct distance.
Steering is another one of those things you don’t want to cheap out on. Its kind of like brakes. People will pay a lot of money to go fast, but they’ll pay even more to stop. Some people will say that a drop pitman arm will work. Most of the time you will have bump steer when you do this. I used this for over a year. I wouldn’t recommend it. Your springs and perches will have a large effect on if you get bump steer or not. There are kits available from companies like MORE that offer a cross over kit with a bracket for the knuckle to place the tie rod over the top of the springs. The tie rod remains under the leaf springs, but on top of the old location. The kit uses hiems. Another option is a Blue Torch Fab Knuckle. Works like the MORE kit, but is the knuckle only. You’d also have to make the tie rod and drag links. By moving the drag link over the top of the springs and parallel to the tie rod the steering is changed back to its proper geometry. The other option is a full on hi-steer. Typically this uses different passenger and driver side knuckles with a pair of hi-steer arms to run both the tie rod and drag link over the springs. There are kits available to do this, but they tend to be pricy. Typically people find flattop Dana 44 knuckles and use hi-steer arms.
All that being said, you can save some cash on buying parts. Deals are there to be found on axles, gears, installation, etc. I found my 8.8 for 5.50. Gears and install kits can be had for 400 shipped if you do some shooping of vendors. Some areas shouldn't be cut like steering or brake lines. I love my SOA lift and it performs just as I wanted. I want those wanting to do this to be aware of what is involved before they get into a long project. It also works best to have other transportation to use while doing the lift.
95 YJ, D30/8.8 w/ 4.88s, SOA, 35x14.50x16.5 Pit Bull Mud Dawgs, 101" Wheelbase, Custom Front Bumper, Winch, Custom Rear Tow Points, Traction Bar, Aussie Locker in front, 20 Gal. Gas Tank modification, Hurculiner Tub, Custom Rear Bumper, SYE and CV shaft, BTF Cross-over Steering, RCI 2191 fuel cell, BTF Rockers, RE 1.5" SOA springs up front and XJ springs in the rear
Down the line a bit...engine swap, the list goes on.
Excellent Job. This is an awesome thread to be started after all the soa questions that have been arising lately. Also a great place to research and plan SOA as i am doing. Might want to put something in about bolt on kits since that seems to be a popular topic of questions Thanks for putting this together.
NICE! I could only add a few things. First: This should be a sticky. 2nd: Props to the dell2028 for starting this thread.
When performing a spring over depending on budget or time involved you may want to consider transfer case swap. With Sye and availability of axles, dana 300 or atlas transfer case may want to be considered at the time of SOA. I chose gm one ton dana 60 and 14 bolt because of price and availability. As a bonus these axles came with 4.56 gearing and spring perch width near that of a yj. If you decide to go with a dana 300 you will need a adapter so plan on another $200. I have purchased one ton axles for $79.99, got transfer cases for free, and found CV drive shafts for $40. All this being said spring over is a lot of little parts and they all add up. Also if you have trouble finishing projects you may want to go another route. In the end build your rig for what you want to use it for. If you just want your jeep to look cool and want instant results SOA is not for you. If any one has real questions and wants specific on swapping one ton chevy stuff feel free to pm me.
hhmmmm look in the FAQ section, i did the same thing a few months ago.....
1998 XJ on 37's.JK Rubi axles with chromo shafts and ctm's, 4:1 transfer case, etc etc etc.
2003 Range Rover HSE, 4.4 Quad Cam.
1998 Range Rover with a 6.0 LSx
1994 YJ, 4.3/700R4/OME SOA, etc
Western Star 4900EX 4 axle.
4.3/700r4/new frame buildup (YJ).... http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324622