Shudder IS Driving me CRAZY - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 39 Old 06-17-2017, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
Rwrangler
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Every time the clutch assembly has been removed, I inspected it very carefully. Absolutely spotless, clean, as never used, not ever clutch dust??? I always thought it was the clutch, but after all the clutch work pretty hard to substantiate. Then I thought it might be the rear locking differential seizing under hot condition, I've tried different oils, additives, nothing changed. Everyone I talked to says can't happen. So then I suspected the transmission, took it to a strictly transmission shop, they say shouldn't happen and they found nothing?????
I can't afford to just replace parts and assemblies, and not be right. I would rather use that money for new paint and interior. And sadly after my mother passes on, this will be my only transportation.

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post #17 of 39 Old 06-17-2017, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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It's so hard for me to believe of all the thousands of Jeeps sold with this exact style and configuration, that no one has had this same problem, I can't be the only one? I've ask online, I've taken it to specific repair shops, and they all say they have never heard of the problem and can't pin point it down?
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post #18 of 39 Old 06-17-2017, 05:08 PM
Drednot
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Well, you have already tried(?) most of the common remedies for this problem. Your case seems to be defying the normal fixes. That's why we are fishing around for some clues that might point to an unusual cause, or missed clue.

Is this a red renegade, by chance?

91 YJ Sahara, 4.0L, AX-15/NP231, D30/D35@3.07
12 Cherokee 4x4,3.7L,42RLE/MP1522, D30M/8.25@3.73
Emission test=YES
"Non Vi Sed, Arte"
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post #19 of 39 Old 06-17-2017, 05:30 PM
Drednot
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Re-reading your posts.
I'm wondering about the driveshaft. Can you post pics of it and its fit-up? I could kinda see your symptoms with worn yoke saddles, or yoke straps, undersized cheap ujoints, etc.
There are two different kinds of u-joint attachment hardware. Straps, or u-bolts. I'm curious as to which you have currently and what condition they are in.

91 YJ Sahara, 4.0L, AX-15/NP231, D30/D35@3.07
12 Cherokee 4x4,3.7L,42RLE/MP1522, D30M/8.25@3.73
Emission test=YES
"Non Vi Sed, Arte"
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post #20 of 39 Old 06-18-2017, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry but it's still at the shop. And according to them, they're replacing all the items they said were bad? So I guess the drive shaft assembly will look different when I get it back? I know I took photo's of everything under the Jeep, but unfortunately I can't find them right now.

And YES, this is the RED RENAGADE
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post #21 of 39 Old 06-18-2017, 04:19 PM
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I hope you get it figured out, and let us know what was found.

Here are a couple of ideas that came to mind. Long shots, but food for thought if nothing else.

I once had an old '66 Ford truck that would shudder. When I finally pulled the trans I found the pilot bushing was missing. Actually, not missing, it was bouncing around inside the clutch cover, but it was missing from where it was supposed to be. That allowed the transmission input shaft to flex, and the friction disk to walk off center. I mention this mostly because there are different pilot sizes on the YJ.

A shudder could also be caused by air in the hydraulic system. Bubbles of air will compress. Usually that results in a clutch that does not fully release, but if you have just the right amount of bubbles, compressing and expanding bubble can cause inconsistent clutch engagement.

Bill
Dodge did not build my Jeep.
1988 Wrangler,4.2L I-6, Howell EFI JP-1,CRT HEI Ign,AX15 ext slave conversion, Zone 2.5" lift + 1/2" booms, BFG 31 x 10.5, Bestop.
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post #22 of 39 Old 06-18-2017, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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bpounds,
Good observation. I actually thought that same question quite a ways back (9yrs). I always ask the shop manager and directly to the mechanic about the pilot bearing, being the proper one each time the clutch assembly was replaced. Now, that's one thing I didn't check my self, I took the word of the mechanic, actually the same person has work at this place for 9 years and has done all the clutch repairs on my Jeep. I also made the request to inspect all the old parts and all the new they were installing. I've done clutch replacements myself and always made sure the bushing fits the transmission input shaft and the flywheel properly. I never just assumed it was correct just by part number, I actually tried/measured it for fit. I also thought about the clutch hydraulics. So just in case I installed a new hydraulic clutch master cylinder, bleed out all the old fluid, didn't make any difference?? At Clutch Mart, they are willing to R&R the clutch assembly again, the parts are free, I have to pay the labor. And maybe that's my next step again, and insist they take special care with the pilot bushing?? Then I also thought to replace the flywheel since it's been ground 3 times now, it must be getting thin??
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post #23 of 39 Old 06-18-2017, 09:07 PM
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I don't know about the getting thin part, but the flatness and finish of the flywheel definitely matters. And if I was pulling the trans again, I would definitely change everything I could think of, especially the flywheel.

Any good shop should know this, but the flywheel and pressure plates should both be cleaned of all traces of oil. And don't use paint thinner, because that leaves an oily trace. Alcohol, lacquer thinner, acetone, brake clean, etc.
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Bill
Dodge did not build my Jeep.
1988 Wrangler,4.2L I-6, Howell EFI JP-1,CRT HEI Ign,AX15 ext slave conversion, Zone 2.5" lift + 1/2" booms, BFG 31 x 10.5, Bestop.
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post #24 of 39 Old 06-19-2017, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Shudder IS Driving me CRAZY

The clutch assembly, clutch, pressure plate, t-brg, pilot bearing (and flywheel ground) 3 times looking for this problem. Plus a clutch master cyl with all new fluid. And there's never been any oil present inside of the bell housing area. I held all the removed clutch parts in my hand each time they were replaced and check them thoroughly for wear, defects, oil, etc.
I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING? Is it possible the front axle "U" joints could be binding once in awhile? I've never check them. How would I test them?
Thanks to everyone who is trying to find this crazy problem with me. Please keep the help coming
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post #25 of 39 Old 06-19-2017, 05:43 PM
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I hate to not have a solution, but my '95 with an automatic does similar. Randomly shutters when accelerating in from a stop in first gear. I've so far decided to just live with it. Every u-joint, motor/trans mount, axles front and rear completely rebuilt, CV front and rear driveshaft are less than a year old. Still has a little shutter randomly

To test a front axle u-joint, put the front axle on jackstands and turn the wheel to side. If the wheel binds, a ujoint is bad.
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post #26 of 39 Old 06-19-2017, 06:35 PM
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Agreed. I check them with the wheel up in the air and turn the wheel forward and backward by hand a little to see if there is any slop by watching the u-joint. You may have to put a finger carefully between the two yokes to feel slight movement or change in the gap. Be watching where the cross goes into the cups and the seal there.

Then do the same with the wheel turned full left and full right. Spin the wheel and look for jerky movement, listening for pops, grinding, etc.


91 YJ Sahara, 4.0L, AX-15/NP231, D30/D35@3.07
12 Cherokee 4x4,3.7L,42RLE/MP1522, D30M/8.25@3.73
Emission test=YES
"Non Vi Sed, Arte"
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post #27 of 39 Old 06-19-2017, 08:49 PM
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have you looked at your input shaft bearing on the transmission it's the only thing that's next in line to the clutch. 1st and reverse shaft may have to much play causing your shutter.

2016 Jeep Compass latitude
2000 Jeep Cherokee with snoway plow
1970 Opel Gt
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post #28 of 39 Old 06-20-2017, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Shudder IS Driving me CRAZY

Thanks guys for the axle "U" joint test. I'll try that. I was always wondering why Jeep didn't put zerk fittings on the front axle "U" joints?? How could they last/function this long with adding fresh grease??
UPDATE: I just received a phone call from the repair shop. They said they installed the newly repaired rear drive shaft, then took it on a test drive. The manager said there was no shudder in 1st or reverse gear? Unfortunately I can't pick up the Jeep till Monday 6-26-2017. I didn't want to be negative, but I've been told that many many times before, but I thought to myself I'll drive it for awhile to really know if this fix my problem? Then I'll update this post.
I really want to say thanks to EVERYONE who has help me.
Keep the information coming. Every post is greatly appreciated.
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post #29 of 39 Old 06-24-2017, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Shudder IS Driving me CRAZY

Well, hereís an update. Itís very hard for me to type this post. Anyhow, I begged a friend to drive me up to Sacramento, CA. and pick up my Jeep from Clutch Mart, 200 miles away in 95 degree heat and huge freeway delays, (stop and go), instead of waiting for my sister to take me on Monday. After all that was done to my Jeep, and 6-1/2 weeks later, I had high expectation, but the Jeep is NO better than before, except I have a bill of $270.00 that could have been spent somewhere needed. My friend following behind me said when I started out from a stop in 1st gear, he could see the rear axle assembly popping/shuddering up and down violently . Man I was hoping and praying by some miracle this repair would fit my problem. But obviously it didnít. So please ask everyone you know that has a 1991 YJ about this crazy/ridiculous problem. Like always any and all help/information is GREATLY APPRECIATED.
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post #30 of 39 Old 06-24-2017, 09:31 AM
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Sounds like axle wrap, but by your profile you are still running the stock suspension right?
Check your U bolts and make sure the leaf spring bolts are still there and in the spring perch holes.
What about your rear track bar. Is it still hooked up?

93 YJ SOA 2" springs front, XJ springs rear w/main leaf added, High pinon 9 inch rear detroit locker front Dana 44 ARB 4.56 Gears, 36 inch Irok tires too much to list.
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