Royal purple ruined my tranny, so what damage? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > YJ Wrangler Technical Forum > Royal purple ruined my tranny, so what damage?

Official Chassis Saver Rust Preventive Truck & Auto UnFS: 2007-2013 Jeep Wrangler "HALO" Angel Eye KitLong Arm kits for all JK models from Clayton Off Road

Reply
Unread 03-30-2010, 10:09 PM   #16
sentinal02
H2 Recovery Team Member
 
sentinal02's Avatar
1992 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 6,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by trw View Post
I ran Royal Purple Synchromax in my AX15 for 11,300 miles now (I bought this tranny brand new from Advance Adapters), and now I'm having problems getting it into gear sometimes.

I was recommended the oil by Napa, whom I asked "would it work in an Aisin transmission with brass synchros?" to which he replied "yes". Now I cannot shift it sometimes!

I changed the Royal Purple oil out with Pennzoil synchromesh and I was able to shift it perfectly fine for a few days before the problems came back again. What will happen is I will coast to a stop with the tranny in nuetral, and when the light turns green and I go to put it in 1st, it wont go into 1st at all, or any gear until I've wrestled with it. Eventually it will drop into 1st, then it will shift fine and smoothly for a little while until it acts up again.

now upon researching the oil, it is for use in trannies that require ATF spec oil so having essentially dumped ATF (thinner viscosity than 75w90) into my AX15, is there any damage it may have done? Is this a synchro problem or a clutch problem? and if tranny related, would just replacing the synchros do? or would there be more permanent damage to the gear sets or anything?
if the syncro's were your problem then you'd likely have trouble down shifting from 1 or 2 gears only (highly unlikely that all 4 will go at once) and it would be a gradual build up over time. trust me, I've got bad syncro's in mine and shifting into 3rd sounds like someone playing a washboard if i don't speed shift. trouble getting into gear with the engine running is a classic clutch issue. bad news is that you're going to have a bit of work to do in order to bleed the 95's external slave cylinder. there should be a recessed allen head screw on the slave cylinder. open it up and you should get fluid out of the system. open it to the point you get a pretty steady stream and then gravity bleed the system by letting it drain for a couple minutes while you keep topping off the master cylinder with fresh fluid. don't let the master run dry or else you'll be adding air to the system. after you're done, give the jeep a try and see if you have the same problem. nothing is impossible so it could still be your tranny, but i would definitely at least try this before dropping more money into the tranny.

__________________
RIP: '88 YJ 2.5L Ax-5 NP231
Posi-Loked. Herculined. Optima yellow top. 1" Shackle, 2" BDS. Cragar 397's Aussie front.

92 YJ 4.0L Ax-15 231
5" springs, 1" shackle 31's or 35's depending on my mood
sentinal02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-30-2010, 10:13 PM   #17
honda250ex
Registered User
1987 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cold Spring NY
Posts: 531
Are you low on brake fluid? When I have trouble putting it into gear, Im always low on fluid. -Mike
__________________
It's better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a lamb.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/honda250exs-buildup-860712/
honda250ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2010, 12:09 AM   #18
trw
Registered User
2011 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,958
well let me add a few more symptoms that may help.

the tranny never grinds when I have this issue, it just silently locks me out until I force it in and it slips in with a faint *click* and then all is well for a little while, once that happens I can shift into any gear with no trouble at all.

I have checked the clutch cylinders and no fluid is leaking from anywhere, and the resovior (sp) is full. The clutch pedal also has consistant pressure at all times and never gets "soft" or fades. The one thing that may be of use though, is that whenever I do press the clutch pedal, I hear a popping noise from the clutch bell area and I also feel it through the pedal as well, as if something is binding up and then releasing, but I have had that noise for well over a year, far before this shifting issue ever turned up.

The popping noise is not the clutch cylinders though, I did remove the slave before and work the pedal and the noise went away, so I suspect the throw out bearing or pressure plate (both are only a few years old btw) for that.

One thing that does concern me most is that the oil I took out of the tranny does have small metallic speckles in it, almost like the sparkles you see on OEM metallic paint, too fine to determine color, but its quite visible; The drain plug had quite a bit of fine particle sludge on its magnet as well.

as for bleeding the clutch cylinders, that is not possible on my 95, there is no screw to undo on the slave, I believe one must buy a new pre-bled assembly from Chrysler if there are any issues.

*edit* and here are 2 pics of the royal purple that I drained out of the tranny. The faint swirls are particles that sparkle in the light, and they rapidly sink until you stir it back up again.


here you can see the particles more up close
__________________
Jeep garage:
2011 Jeep Wrangler JK - 33" BFG KM2s, 2.5" RC BB, ARB bumper, IPF 900XS, Superwinch EPI 9.0, AEV Snorkel
1995 Jeep Wrangler - 4 cyl, 2.5" lift, BFG AT 30s, Ford 8.8, SYE+CV, AX15 swap, ARB snorkel, Aussie locker + loads more - sold
1978 Jeep CJ-7 - 304 V8, TH400 auto and quadratrac
2007 Jeep Liberty - Mother's Jeep, BFG ATs and....mud?

Last edited by trw; 03-31-2010 at 12:54 AM..
trw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2010, 06:38 PM   #19
trw
Registered User
2011 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,958
Im bumping because Im curious if my oil is suppose to look like that
__________________
Jeep garage:
2011 Jeep Wrangler JK - 33" BFG KM2s, 2.5" RC BB, ARB bumper, IPF 900XS, Superwinch EPI 9.0, AEV Snorkel
1995 Jeep Wrangler - 4 cyl, 2.5" lift, BFG AT 30s, Ford 8.8, SYE+CV, AX15 swap, ARB snorkel, Aussie locker + loads more - sold
1978 Jeep CJ-7 - 304 V8, TH400 auto and quadratrac
2007 Jeep Liberty - Mother's Jeep, BFG ATs and....mud?
trw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2010, 08:12 PM   #20
shawn33
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 18
i had a similar problem, so i drained out whatever milky crap was in my ax-15 and put redline MTL in. got better for about a day then the problem came back. Then I discovered that a bolt on my bell housing went missing and every time pushed the clutch pedal the bell housing and engine separated causing the clutch to not disengage all the way (this same bolt was the one that held the bracket for the clutch line in place). Long story short, got a new bolt from home depot and the problem was solved and the redline MTL makes it better than before. You might want to check the torque on your bell housing/transmission bolts just for good measure. I'm assuming mine came loose after some rough off-roading.
shawn33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2010, 08:30 PM   #21
idaholtby
Web Wheeler
 
idaholtby's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 2,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by trw View Post
well let me add a few more symptoms that may help.

the tranny never grinds when I have this issue, it just silently locks me out until I force it in and it slips in with a faint *click* and then all is well for a little while, once that happens I can shift into any gear with no trouble at all.

I have checked the clutch cylinders and no fluid is leaking from anywhere, and the reservoir (sp) is full. The clutch pedal also has consistent pressure at all times and never gets "soft" or fades. The one thing that may be of use though, is that whenever I do press the clutch pedal, I hear a popping noise from the clutch bell area and I also feel it through the pedal as well, as if something is binding up and then releasing, but I have had that noise for well over a year, far before this shifting issue ever turned up.

The popping noise is not the clutch cylinders though, I did remove the slave before and work the pedal and the noise went away, so I suspect the throw out bearing or pressure plate (both are only a few years old btw) for that.

One thing that does concern me most is that the oil I took out of the tranny does have small metallic speckles in it, almost like the sparkles you see on OEM metallic paint, too fine to determine color, but its quite visible; The drain plug had quite a bit of fine particle sludge on its magnet as well.

as for bleeding the clutch cylinders, that is not possible on my 95, there is no screw to undo on the slave, I believe one must buy a new pre-bled assembly from Chrysler if there are any issues.

*edit* and here are 2 pics of the royal purple that I drained out of the tranny. The faint swirls are particles that sparkle in the light, and they rapidly sink until you stir it back up again.


here you can see the particles more up close
Well, the flakes would appear to be synchro sheddings, but this is likely due to having to force the tranny in gear when at a stop, not the fluid that was used, especially in that short of a time period. I still suspect that you have a hydraulic pressure issue. When my last master cylinder went bad, I could not detect a lose of pressure with my foot, but it allowed the pressure within the master to leak bye the piston enough so that not all of the pressure was applied to the slave. When this happened to me, it was exactly as your symptoms. I could not shift into first when I came to a stop. I had to down shift to first before coming to a rolling stop, even then it was notchy. Eventually the master totally failed and would not release the clutch.
idaholtby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 01:45 PM   #22
trw
Registered User
2011 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,958
ok, new clutch cylinders, new throw out bearing, the clutch disk and pressure plate are fine, and I still cannot shift this damn thing at times

at one point I thought I was actually going to break the shift lever I was having to push so hard it would not go in.
__________________
Jeep garage:
2011 Jeep Wrangler JK - 33" BFG KM2s, 2.5" RC BB, ARB bumper, IPF 900XS, Superwinch EPI 9.0, AEV Snorkel
1995 Jeep Wrangler - 4 cyl, 2.5" lift, BFG AT 30s, Ford 8.8, SYE+CV, AX15 swap, ARB snorkel, Aussie locker + loads more - sold
1978 Jeep CJ-7 - 304 V8, TH400 auto and quadratrac
2007 Jeep Liberty - Mother's Jeep, BFG ATs and....mud?
trw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 01:50 PM   #23
SloppyJoseph
Registered User
1993 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bella Vista, Arkansas
Posts: 822
10w30 FTW. Cheap and easy. Check your master cylinder.
SloppyJoseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 01:53 PM   #24
Hussler
Registered User
1992 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: utica, new york
Posts: 5,288
10w-30 is the new spec via Mopar for the AX-15, use motor oil.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris87xj View Post
Sometimes a restoration project is a labor of love, at which point cost, time, and labor involved become irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorderC View Post
I see you also twizzled your scart lead. Well done! :thumbsup:
92 XJ with ARB's, 5" lift, too much armor, 33's and some other garbage
Hussler is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 01:54 PM   #25
idaholtby
Web Wheeler
 
idaholtby's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 2,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by trw View Post
ok, new clutch cylinders, new throw out bearing, the clutch disk and pressure plate are fine, and I still cannot shift this damn thing at times

at one point I thought I was actually going to break the shift lever I was having to push so hard it would not go in.
When you state "new clutch cylinders" does that imply that a new master and slave cylinders were installed? This problem still appears to be hydraulic related. The "throw out bearing" is part of the slave, so was the master replaced and properly bleed as well? I understand your frustration, I am only trying to help and to help define what was or not done to help diagnose.
idaholtby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 02:37 PM   #26
trw
Registered User
2011 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,958
yes, both cylinders, master and slave were replaced with the pre-assembled, pre-bled unit.
__________________
Jeep garage:
2011 Jeep Wrangler JK - 33" BFG KM2s, 2.5" RC BB, ARB bumper, IPF 900XS, Superwinch EPI 9.0, AEV Snorkel
1995 Jeep Wrangler - 4 cyl, 2.5" lift, BFG AT 30s, Ford 8.8, SYE+CV, AX15 swap, ARB snorkel, Aussie locker + loads more - sold
1978 Jeep CJ-7 - 304 V8, TH400 auto and quadratrac
2007 Jeep Liberty - Mother's Jeep, BFG ATs and....mud?
trw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 02:40 PM   #27
idaholtby
Web Wheeler
 
idaholtby's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 2,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by trw View Post
yes, both cylinders, master and slave were replaced with the pre-assembled, pre-bled unit.
How does the clutch pedal feel? Normal pressure, or does it go to the floor? Is the master and slave aftermarket or OEM?
idaholtby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 03:28 PM   #28
50rck
Registered User
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: nc
Posts: 320
ok bear with me because I don't know exactly how the external slave cylinder on the Jeeps. But the symptoms you describe are exactly what I had with a 1999 F250 Powerstroke I used to have. That had a similar setup to what you describe with the Jeep. I had to buy a master/slave cylinder as one unit to fix my problem and it was prebled as well.

The problem I was having was the original design had a larger diameter, and softer rubber, section in the hydraulic line that went down from the master to the external slave cylinder. That rubber section was what they (Ford) called an "isolation boot". That boot, over time, got weak and would not allow pressure to be maintained when the pedal was pushed in, and therefore would not allow the clutch to disengage. I had to buy those cylinders as a whole unit, and it was prebled as well. The new unit cost me $120 bucks and did not have that stupid boot. It worked great after that. I think it should have been a recall. And I never felt and vibrations, so I'm sure Ford saw that as a money maker for them

Anyway, what really concerns me is the "popping" you feel. I think that is your problem. Try pumping the pedal a few times, see if that helps, with everything together. I know you said you disconnected the slave cylinder and it went away. Is is gone now that you replaced it Also, does that pressure plate have springs in it? Sometimes those will get loose, or go bad. I think you need to figure out where that popping is coming from. But I'm with everyone else, I think you are having a pressure issue somewhere. (as a disclaimer, I am not a fan of Royal Purple, but I don't think that is the problem here. I run Mobil 1 75w-90 and it shifts like butter)

Another silly thought, how are the motor mounts and tranny mounts? I only ask incase there is an alignment issue not letting the clutch fully disengage.
__________________
1991 YJ, rebuilt 4.0L in spring 2009 at 234,000 miles, no lift yet, slightly offset wheels, 235/75/15 tires for now, rag top, sold the hard top. Over 35,000 miles on the rebuild and counting.


2006 Jeep Liberty. Nothing special, all stock.
50rck is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #29
idaholtby
Web Wheeler
 
idaholtby's Avatar
1991 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 2,554
^^good points as well.
idaholtby is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-26-2010, 03:33 PM   #30
trw
Registered User
2011 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,958
the pressure feels normal, and consistent, I've never had the peddle drop.

I purchased them from Quadratec, so I'm not sure what brand they use, but I did have another "incident" today. I was at the hardware store and when I started the Jeep and went to put it into reverse, reverse gear started grinding and it wouldn't stop grinding until I moved the stick back into Nuetral, at that point I tried other forward gears and I was indeed locked out again (could not shift into any other gear).

I let the clutch out and tried it again about a minute later and it still would not go into gear, only once I tried a 3rd time did it finally go into gear.

I'm wondering if it is the pressure plate. When I had the transmission out, it did look fine, the fingers weren't bent and didn't appear worn, but I realize how looks can be deceiving

oh yea, that popping I described earlier was because the retainer clip was missing on the shift fork, I replaced that but it didn't solve the shifting issues, however my clutch is nice, quiet and smooth now
__________________
Jeep garage:
2011 Jeep Wrangler JK - 33" BFG KM2s, 2.5" RC BB, ARB bumper, IPF 900XS, Superwinch EPI 9.0, AEV Snorkel
1995 Jeep Wrangler - 4 cyl, 2.5" lift, BFG AT 30s, Ford 8.8, SYE+CV, AX15 swap, ARB snorkel, Aussie locker + loads more - sold
1978 Jeep CJ-7 - 304 V8, TH400 auto and quadratrac
2007 Jeep Liberty - Mother's Jeep, BFG ATs and....mud?
trw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.