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Unread 07-28-2010, 09:05 PM   #31
hallsofstone
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I really don't know what they cut out or what they left behind but the shackle is **NOT**touching the frame except for one glob of bead that they saw fit to leave behind. They left that old bushing in place and must have just re-used the bushing tube?? I can't really tell at all where it got welded and where it did not and likely should have.

I'm definitely screwed and poor. Taking it over to the VERY REPUTABLE auto/body shop that recommended this welding shop to me to see what they have to say about the whole scenario.

I'm extremely unhappy. EXTREMELY. This is what I get for trying to take a step ahead. I'm forced by idiocy to take three steps and bare minimum $200 backward. I had just repaired that so that I could replace my terrifying suspension with my lift kit.

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Unread 07-29-2010, 11:12 AM   #32
raynmaker
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That is a hard lesson learned. I agree with all that it is a hack job. My fam has been welding since jesus was a baby! Here are some obvious things even a noob can understand. A rep shop would never leave welds looking like that. Takes no time at all to grind em down. And even the bad shops spray paint em to hide the pen issues.

Sorry you had to get the shaft like that. But at least you opened some future noob's eyes and saved them some money!
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Unread 07-29-2010, 12:37 PM   #33
pasinbuy
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I agree with Jbolty,, buy the part you need to be welded in and then take it to another shop.

your guy fabbed from scratch when you could of bought the prefabbed part and taken it to him. Also just because a shop has a good reputation does not mean that the new guy there has the same standards. Your guy welded new metal over rusted flaking metal, any new welder knows not to do that.

The job you had done it one of the worst I have seen, on the other hand I am no pro either.
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Unread 07-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #34
hallsofstone
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Just can't wait until I can afford to take it to another shop and have them look at the work this "reputable welding shop" did. When I contacted them initially, I offered to buy that frame section to make it easier and they refused, stating that they could fab that. The offer was made AGAIN when I dropped the Jeep off too (plus the shop manual for the tank removal) and again refused. Not like we all don't have a Quadratec or two laying around.

I'll keep this thread posted with the new developments. Hopefully this can help some other noobs figure out what NOT to do with this common jeeper problem. I'm also going to include more pictures here of the job and some "before" pictures of the cancer. When it's repaired properly, I'll take some pictures of the process and the final result.

..oh...and the lift too if I ever get to that!
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Unread 07-29-2010, 03:00 PM   #35
plym49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Just can't wait until I can afford to take it to another shop and have them look at the work this "reputable welding shop" did. When I contacted them initially, I offered to buy that frame section to make it easier and they refused, stating that they could fab that. The offer was made AGAIN when I dropped the Jeep off too (plus the shop manual for the tank removal) and again refused. Not like we all don't have a Quadratec or two laying around.

I'll keep this thread posted with the new developments. Hopefully this can help some other noobs figure out what NOT to do with this common jeeper problem. I'm also going to include more pictures here of the job and some "before" pictures of the cancer. When it's repaired properly, I'll take some pictures of the process and the final result.

..oh...and the lift too if I ever get to that!
I really feel for you. Mechanical repairs are a place where it is really easy to get shafted, whether intentionally or not. Maybe this shop was taking advantage of you or maybe they just ran out of talent; either way, you are out the $200 and your Jeep is still hosed.

See what happens after you talk to them. Maybe they will refund your money. But you should bone up on the rights you have in your state. Most states have auto-repair regulations that are very pro-consumer - sometimes unfairly so (to the shop) because the regs bend over backwards to keep someone from getting boned. In this case it seems clear that substandard work was performed that is not up to generally accepted workmanship standards. If they wont budge, perhaps you can gently inform them that you will stand up for yourself, and then back it up with action if need be. I don't know the specific regs in Ohio, but from what you have described, they have run afoul of several requirements that exist in some states I am familiar with. Since consumer protection laws are mirrored to a large extent, I am sure that a mechanism exists in Ohio for you to complain through channels.

Good luck and keep us apprised of your progress.
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Unread 07-29-2010, 05:01 PM   #36
fitbmxseries1
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i did mine with out dropping the gas and still got good welds back there. did both sides too. Ive repaired 4 frames like that already.
i really think they should have made the pieces bigger on your frame and at least finished the welding!

heres the kit i used on my jeep.


the other ones i did i ended up cutting my own repair parts it took a lot more time doing that but they also came out well
id also say if you lived closer i could clean that up and finish up the welding on there for you, im all for helping out a fellow jeeper who needs it.
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Unread 07-29-2010, 05:12 PM   #37
blue89wrangler
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just grind down the welds and to me judging by the size of those beads that metal is about 1/4 in thick... but i can't tell i'm not looking in person... sure it aint the prettiest but you guys are being way to critical if the jeep drove before ( with a huge rusty frame ) this will certainly not be any worse.... now the fact that you paid that much to have it done, i think you should ask for a refund of some sort... i wouldn't report them to anywhere until you talk to them first. just my two cents
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Unread 07-29-2010, 06:58 PM   #38
hallsofstone
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Regardless of how bad it was before the welding job sucks. By all accounts.

I'm looking further into this ASAP and really unhappy.
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Unread 07-30-2010, 08:41 PM   #39
hallsofstone
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Ok - so today I went to the local auto shop that referred me to that welding shop. Showed the shop manager (family friend) what we're all talking about here and he was appalled.

His response is this: Yes that's a crappy crappy welding job with poor penetration and NIL fabrication/engineering. They did NOT cut out the old and replace. They did NOT clean the surfaces before welding. They used POOR quality metal. They did NOT gind any of the welds down. They did not even FINISH all the welding necessary.

Regardless of all of this he does not think that it is any weaker than the swiss cheese that was there and he's not worried about me driving on it for the TIME BEING. He's going to look around locally for the best welding shop and get back to me.

Meanwhile, he said it should be solid enough that I can go ahead with the lift.
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85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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Unread 07-30-2010, 08:57 PM   #40
giggityjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Ok - so today I went to the local auto shop that referred me to that welding shop. Showed the shop manager (family friend) what we're all talking about here and he was appalled.

His response is this: Yes that's a crappy crappy welding job with poor penetration and NIL fabrication/engineering. They did NOT cut out the old and replace. They did NOT clean the surfaces before welding. They used POOR quality metal. They did NOT gind any of the welds down. They did not even FINISH all the welding necessary.

Regardless of all of this he does not think that it is any weaker than the swiss cheese that was there and he's not worried about me driving on it for the TIME BEING. He's going to look around locally for the best welding shop and get back to me.

Meanwhile, he said it should be solid enough that I can go ahead with the lift.
it was all good till there......

even if it was why bother your gonna have to rip it apart to fix it after the lift is in, I would just wait get that fixed right, bring it home and then do your lift...
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Unread 07-30-2010, 09:27 PM   #41
hallsofstone
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Because the Jeep has a scary, totally shot stock suspension. Scary meaning I don't drive it on the freeway.
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Unread 07-31-2010, 03:57 PM   #42
plym49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Ok - so today I went to the local auto shop that referred me to that welding shop. Showed the shop manager (family friend) what we're all talking about here and he was appalled.

His response is this: Yes that's a crappy crappy welding job with poor penetration and NIL fabrication/engineering. They did NOT cut out the old and replace. They did NOT clean the surfaces before welding. They used POOR quality metal. They did NOT gind any of the welds down. They did not even FINISH all the welding necessary.

Regardless of all of this he does not think that it is any weaker than the swiss cheese that was there and he's not worried about me driving on it for the TIME BEING. He's going to look around locally for the best welding shop and get back to me.

Meanwhile, he said it should be solid enough that I can go ahead with the lift.
Whoa, Nelly! You have confirmation from many folks on this forum PLUS the eyewitness statements of a trained observer, AND YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT GOING AHEAD WITH YOUR LIFT!?

Sorry for shouting - but this sounds like a totally lame idea.

You cannot build atop a crappy foundation. One of the most fundamental areas of your Jeep - where the suspension attaches to the frame - has known problems, and you are going to drive it and lift it?

Please consider some alternatives, like getting that thing properly fixed FIRST.
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Unread 07-31-2010, 08:27 PM   #43
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Not sure what happened to my post, but I bought plates from a guy on greatlakes4x4...









My stuff wasn't torn up too bad, but I wanted it fixed.
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Unread 08-02-2010, 04:02 PM   #44
hallsofstone
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I'll probably go ahead with the lift because I have to keep my Jeep on the road (if I can't get a frame fix first). I don't have the luxary of a rig that's not a daily driver. Suspension that's on there is terrible and the rear frame section HAS to be better than what I had.

It's not like I'm thrashing this rig and I'm not dumb enough to do so until the frame is fixed right. I'm driving it to work and it's getting to the point that I can't do that. You go try and run your rig with NO SHOCKS (mine are 100% shot) and saggy leaves and tell me what you think about the freeway. Funny thing, being poor. You only have so many resources. I have all the parts already and a very competant welder told me that it should be solid enough to at least do that.

When the time comes, we will unbolt the shackle and drop that leaf and gas tank. We have to do that either way to fix the frame, new suspension or old, so why does it matter at this point. I'm already screwed and it's scary to drive with a shot suspension.

Still working out the details on another welding shop. I might just turn this into a build thread if this goes on long enough. Pictures to come...
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00 TJ Sport - Ever evolving DD/Rig [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/jeeping-ohio-hallsofstones-tj-build-1392513/[/url]
85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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Unread 08-02-2010, 07:35 PM   #45
Firefyter-Emt
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I highly doubt the "repair / hack-a-rama" is going to "fail" in street driving, and you are "better" than having the rotted areas without the slapped on tin to be honest. I would also hold off until you can have a proper repair as well though. However, if you have other issues like missing leaf springs that have broken off, and the shocks have fallen off... I might agree with you about adding the lift. You really only have one area that a new lift even comes in contact with. Most of the time, a total failure in street driving will result in lots of noise and the spring going through the frame rail. With the axle bolted in place, and the front hanger attached, it should stay pretty much in place. (Been there, and have driven cars with the rear springs that have gone THROUGH trunk floors!)

Just make sure it's repaired properly this time around. Oh, and I would love to be a fly on the wall the next time that mechanic talks to the Hack that slapped those patches on for you! (I still stand by the fact that for $200, it was not billed enough to drop the gas tank and repair that kind of damage)

PS, for the poster that mentioned that he did not "have" to remove his gas tank... Remember, gas does not burn.... it's the fumes. That's a heck of a way to put yourself in the burn / trauma unit. That kind of injury is something you NEVER want to EVER go through in your life! The term "debridement" is something you should never learn about first hand. No body ever catches a gas tank on fire on purpose, but you are creating molten metal around a plastic gas tank, just inches away. It's worth the time to remove the tank, but don't forget to plug the fuel lines too!
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