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Unread 07-26-2010, 07:05 PM   #16
monkeyhouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Here's one good pic:



What do you think. Kinda sloppy work but it looks really solid. Got another shot of the bottom plate on there coming up...
okay, for a shop it looks crappy....BUT for the money it should be fine. It's a spot that always goes bad on wranglers so it's good you're getting it done! I'd put some chassis saver on that and call it done!

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Unread 07-26-2010, 07:15 PM   #17
hallsofstone
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Here's another angle showing the bottom plate. Basically the same thing on the other side too but no good way to get a good pic w/lighting.

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Unread 07-26-2010, 07:18 PM   #18
plym49
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Gosh that makes it look worse. Like globs of bead are just sitting there.

Look at the right side - a huge gap, questionable penetration to the original fram, gap not filled - just what is holding on to what? Over on the left, it does not look like they filleted the plates.

Hack, hack, hack.

Questionable penetration is not your friend, regardless of how inexpensive the repair.

Again, suggest you have some known good welder or fabricator look at it as perhaps the photos are misleading.


***********

I can hear it now: if you ask the shop that did this about their repair, they would say 'that ain't going nowhere' - - - and then, as soon as you left, they'd be laughing about it, saying 'it looks good from my house'.
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Unread 07-26-2010, 07:19 PM   #19
hallsofstone
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Hmmm...this welding shop has a great local reputation and they were recommended to me by the auto shop that does all the stuff I can't handle on my cars (my folks too).

I'm absolutely a novice welder, so is this really that bad? Looked pretty solid, though ugly. Should I weld that end too? I'm sure I can do that. Also, chassis saver is on the way!
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00 TJ Sport - Ever evolving DD/Rig [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/jeeping-ohio-hallsofstones-tj-build-1392513/[/url]
85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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Unread 07-26-2010, 07:35 PM   #20
hallsofstone
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Don't have a pic yet, but the bottom plate extends about a foot up the frame too and the weld on that looks better/more penetration. That's what I'm assuming everything is tied into. I was away all weekend and did not get a chance to stop in and see how it went together. More than likely they just got lazy becaue of how much time they had in it having quoted me a price of $200 (which I have no choice but to hold them to because even at that, I'm not eating much this week). The 4 hour gas-tank-drop business IS stupid and their fault and could have been avoided by taking my Clymer manual when I offered it to them.

Any more thoughts/observations?
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[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"] Jeeping Ohio Every Day[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]
00 TJ Sport - Ever evolving DD/Rig [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/jeeping-ohio-hallsofstones-tj-build-1392513/[/url]
85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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K.C.C.O. [url]www.thechive.com[/url]
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Unread 07-26-2010, 08:59 PM   #21
Firefyter-Emt
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OMG... that is a freaking HACK JOB! What the heck did they think they were doing! I knew it was going to look bad as soon as you said they were going to just "not use" a freaking spring bushing! But what the heck is THAT!

That looks like thin body gauge sheet metal and I see no signs that they cut out the rot. Much less even ground down the frame before welding. 75% of the welds are cold and not even penetrated into the frame itself. Heck, they did not even bother to weld the sides (that will be a nice water scoop on that bare metal, Eh?) It also looks like the welding was done with an arc welder. Not that that's bad, but what kind of welding shop does not have a good Mig?

Shoot, cut your losses with these morons, order the replacement rail ends from Q-tech and find a REAL welder to cut the old rail ends off and replace them. That repair is not only poor, but in some ways worse now as it will hold even more dirt and water against bare metal. The good news is you did not over pay for the work... $200 is not enough to properly repair the frame end rot.

FWIW, I AM an ASE certified frame tech & licensed appraiser.
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Unread 07-26-2010, 09:08 PM   #22
Alabamaranger
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All it needs is some black undercoat paint to make it look good.
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Unread 07-26-2010, 09:24 PM   #23
Aahzmandius
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Get another welder/fabricator to look at it, soon.

No penetration whatsoever, plus looks like the underside has a couple of grapes, another sign of no penetration. The weld should be a consistent size and thickness. plym49 was bang on about the spots to the right, plus on the left they should have weaved the gap to get a good fill.

Seriously, get someone to check it hallsofstone. Try one of your local colleges welding instructors, they often make a good resource.
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Unread 07-26-2010, 09:33 PM   #24
Alabamaranger
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I looked at a Jeep in a car lot one time and the frame was almost gone at the shackle. They must of used 5 cans of the undercoat spray to build up and fill in the area so if won't be so noticeable. Can believe they would send something like that out.
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Unread 07-26-2010, 09:46 PM   #25
giggityjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefyter-Emt View Post
OMG... that is a freaking HACK JOB! What the heck did they think they were doing! I knew it was going to look bad as soon as you said they were going to just "not use" a freaking spring bushing! But what the heck is THAT!

That looks like thin body gauge sheet metal and I see no signs that they cut out the rot. Much less even ground down the frame before welding. 75% of the welds are cold and not even penetrated into the frame itself. Heck, they did not even bother to weld the sides (that will be a nice water scoop on that bare metal, Eh?) It also looks like the welding was done with an arc welder. Not that that's bad, but what kind of welding shop does not have a good Mig?

Shoot, cut your losses with these morons, order the replacement rail ends from Q-tech and find a REAL welder to cut the old rail ends off and replace them. That repair is not only poor, but in some ways worse now as it will hold even more dirt and water against bare metal. The good news is you did not over pay for the work... $200 is not enough to properly repair the frame end rot.

FWIW, I AM an ASE certified frame tech & licensed appraiser.
Im no pro here but even I cut the old out, I know know why they never used a new bushing, they just drilled new steel and covered over, you can see old frame on teh top above the new plate, its just been covered over... Im guessing your bushing dont even og to the outside of the new metal, actually I know it dont I can see it in the pic your shackle is but against metal....

its prolly solid for a year or 2 till the old **** in behind takes hold on the new and strats rusintg inside out again... I would have somone else have a look

another reason to do it yourself or be VERY involved in it....



cut out old fit new piece flush....weld in



then show them these a how to remove a shackle bushing...



if ya cant get it out burn it out and get new ones after welding around it anyhow it is prollytoast it gets pretty hot....
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Started with some rust repairs ended in a SOA...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/h...-jeep-1050879/

family roll bar swap/upgrade..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...grade-1054753/

1990 YJ. SOA, OME 36R 3.5" lift springs, OME 5/8 greasable shackles, OTT high steer, Custom cage, team Rush, Posi, 33 TSL swampers
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Unread 07-26-2010, 10:01 PM   #26
hallsofstone
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Jesus...didn't think it was that bad but I'll take it to another shop I know of. I also had a college professor who taught sculpture (his specailty is metals/fabrication). He's a total pro who does crazy huge projects and runs a mobile welding business during the summer months. I'll see what he's up to.

Wow. Now I'm kind of pissed as opposed to elated that I have the Jeep back and solid. Worst part about it is that this shop insisted that it be off the books...no recepit...no proof they did it other than by my word.
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85 Suzuki GS700 - ugly

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
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K.C.C.O. [url]www.thechive.com[/url]
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Unread 07-26-2010, 10:18 PM   #27
giggityjeeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallsofstone View Post
Jesus...didn't think it was that bad but I'll take it to another shop I know of. I also had a college professor who taught sculpture (his specailty is metals/fabrication). He's a total pro who does crazy huge projects and runs a mobile welding business during the summer months. I'll see what he's up to.

Wow. Now I'm kind of pissed as opposed to elated that I have the Jeep back and solid. Worst part about it is that this shop insisted that it be off the books...no recepit...no proof they did it other than by my word.
no liaibility when it breaks and kills someone....

even mine I will take down to a certified shop and have it looked over once done, the guy doing it is a licensed welder, just does not weld as his trade so he dont keep up on all the 'new' stuff, its not somehting to screw around with, imagind that falling off at 60 mph on the highway....

weeeeeeee your *** goodby
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Started with some rust repairs ended in a SOA...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/h...-jeep-1050879/

family roll bar swap/upgrade..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...grade-1054753/

1990 YJ. SOA, OME 36R 3.5" lift springs, OME 5/8 greasable shackles, OTT high steer, Custom cage, team Rush, Posi, 33 TSL swampers
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Unread 07-26-2010, 10:57 PM   #28
BlackRhino
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I think they were just trying to get you out of there as quick as possible, and hoping you wouldn't notice what a ****ty job they did. That's worse than any DIY frame repair I've ever seen.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 08:32 PM   #29
plym49
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So what did we learn today:

1) They did not know how to remove a gas tank (you gotta admit, that concept of 'unbolting' is pretty obscure)

2) They pleaded ignorance regarding the shackle bushing (probably to help cover up their shoddy approach to the repair)

3) They did not prepare the surfaces to be welded

4) They added plates on top of the rusty frame

5) Their welds did not penetrate or completely seal/isolate the affected areas

6) Cash only - no receipt - no audit trail

7) The shackles are improperly rubbing the frame rails

8) Their best recommendation was that 'someone knew them'

9) The material they used was too thin

Did I miss anything?

You could have gotten less screwed by spending that $200 at a strip club.

Are they a licensed (by your state) repair shop? If so, file a complaint about them refusing to provide a work order and receipt. At the very least you will get your $200 back when the inspector visits them and encourages them to refund your money in order for you to withdraw your complaint. At worst you get no refund but they will get a several hundred dollar (or more) civil fine.
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Unread 07-27-2010, 09:26 PM   #30
giggityjeeper
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be nice now guys, I said it earlier, I WILL NEVER let anyone do work on my jeep without me being there or me doing it..

beleiveme man I was acomplete jeep ****ing noob, knew nothing, I fluked out and got lucky when I found out my 90 had the ax 15, I later found out hte ax 5 is ****...

research is your friend, THIS FORUM is your new BFF.... ask anything here, we were all noobs once, but reall seriously learn to do it yourself, I cant weld but I found a good frined that can, so at least I can oversee everything, if something comes up Im not sure on I wil stop him ask here, common snese is your friend to...or ask a couple other to make sure he is on the up and up.. and he is, my repair went very well as is my SOA so far...

and in the ned YOU KNOW what was done, no guessing, no BSing...

in the end get it looked at, dont be discouraged, I found out hte hard way when I had someone do my springs cause I did not have time, I came in one night and he had the track bar hacked in 2 and the srpings cut, WTF, I was gonna sell them... then he put the rear ones on backwards, man I was pissed this was licensed tech in our shop...

I learned that day, tech at dealerships are book techs, if it aint in the book they get lost fast... well not all we have some GREAT techs and diesel guys, but I cant afford them, LOL, dont think they have done general **** in YEARS... I asked one guy one day to see if he could get a rock out of my caliper, he just looked at me and said I charge out a 105 an hour.... LOL...

moving on

woot got my cage done tonight so gonna go update that thread...
__________________
Started with some rust repairs ended in a SOA...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/h...-jeep-1050879/

family roll bar swap/upgrade..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/f...grade-1054753/

1990 YJ. SOA, OME 36R 3.5" lift springs, OME 5/8 greasable shackles, OTT high steer, Custom cage, team Rush, Posi, 33 TSL swampers
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