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-   -   Possible piston skirt and lifter fail...Need advice (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/possible-piston-skirt-lifter-fail-need-advice-1504828/)

Toro5702 04-05-2013 09:03 PM

Possible piston skirt and lifter fail...Need advice
 
Hello JeepForum.com...I have been reading up on threads about the issue I have with my Jeep. I just bought a 91 YJ with the 2.5L for a really good price from my neighbor. He just got diagnosed with lung cancer and needed the money. Was going to continue saving up for an engine swap on my 1st gen 4Runner so I decided to buy the Jeep instead to help him out.

Now, from what I know about this Jeep is that it sat there for years without running. My neighbor briefly told me that he did a complete tune up and new water pump install and got it running. I test drove it and was suprised that the little 4 banger had some power especially with 31" mud terrains on it. It did have the check engine light on which I wasnt too worried about. Engine ran really good and felt that it was in good shape. Only 108,000 miles on it.

Did check engine light diagnostic trouble code and was oxygen sensor that was bad. Ordered one of Ebay for $26 and no more CEL.

Now the bad. I was out at the lake with my boys and when coming out noticed it started pinging/ticking. I've only had the Jeep for a week and thought sounds like a loose rocker arm. No big deal. Was going to replace the valve cover gasket anyway. Well, good thing the lake isn't far from my house b/c it started getting louder, up to a knocking. So took the back roads so I can keep the revs low. As soon as I pulled into my street, the knocking went away.

Next day, bought gasket, removed valve cover and noticed two rocker arms pretty loose, on #2 and #4. Check torque and per my Chiltons, made sure all were at 19 ft. lbs. but #2 and #4 still loose. Then I noticed after wiggiling #2 and tightened up.

What is tripping me out is that the knocking will go away and gradually come back. And will do that when just idling.

So after reading numerous threads on "engine knocking" and "failed lifters", I think I might have both.

So my question is, if I find broken pieces of a piston skirt in my oil pan, should I also replace lifters and all pistons?

If no broken pieces, do you think by replacing lifters knocking will go away?

I will do some diagnosing as well, engine running pulling a spark plug wire one at a time see if knocking changes to pinpoint which cylinder. Also removing serpentine belt and see if notice a difference. Removing oil pan to check for broken pieces. And I will report back to you all.

Would like some advice whether to bother with all that or replace engine. Dont have much money left to spend a lot on a new engine. Would like drive it daily especially since my boys love the Jeep.

Sorry for the long story, was trying to be as detailed as possible..

USMCBuckWild 04-06-2013 05:59 AM

Better to start cheap. Pull the dipstick and look for glitter in the oil. Pull the pan and look for signs of failure (large pieces of metal constitutes failure) sometimes running good oil (Rotella) will help with sticky lifters. Throwing a quart of ATF about 500 miles before an oil change will help too.

So, if it were me, after checking for actual damage i would do a quart of atf, run it for a couple miles (idle in the driveway as well) change the oil for Rotella.

roadyrob 04-06-2013 06:30 AM

a rod knock doesn't start then stop, if it knocks it knocks, might get louder under load but its always there. really sounds like you have a bad lifter. the ATF then a oil change suggested might free it up. I'd do some tests before dropping the oil pan, check compression, check for timing chain slop and check for blowby. they should tell you the condition of the engine.

Toro5702 04-06-2013 06:44 AM

Thanks guys. I also read about using ATF oil to clean up the insides as well. If i understood correctly I replace a quart of oil with ATF, right?

Here is a video on my ticking/knocking. If you notice 5 seconds into the video it stops then gradually comes back. And as soon as I stopped recording it stopped again.

YouTube (Short URL)
?start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Toro5702 04-06-2013 08:55 PM

Ok, for some reason my youtube screenshot is coming out as webpage not found but if you click on the heading where it says "Youtube (Short URL) it will take you to the video.

The next video below is when I did the "unplugging spark plug wire" diagnosis. If you notice, right at the beginning when I start her up, you can hear the knocking for a brief second then it goes away. Then again it gradually comes back. Not sure if it was in this video or when I was not recording but I did now notice 2 different ticking/knocking. One was more of a ticking that would come and go and the other is the knocking you can hear clearly on the video that basically stays consistent now. That kind of makes sense since I did noticed #2 & #4 rocker arms being loose, in other words having a failed lifter. Like I originally posted on my 1st post.

Tomorrow I will take off serpentine belt and drop the oil pan to check for broken pieces.

Has anyone had the same type of issue that knocking/ticking comes and goes??

Once again, not sure why it is showing up as Webpage not found...first time uploading pics to youtube and posting them in a forum. Once again, just click on the heading "Youtube (Short URL)". It will direct you to my youtube video.

Another thing to notice, as I revved up the engine, the knocking did not subside at all. I did read on my research that some people mentioned that when they revved up the engine that the knocking would decrease or just simply vanish.
YouTube (Short URL)
?start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

USMCBuckWild 04-06-2013 09:23 PM

I did on a built 318 in my W150 back in the day. It bent 2 pushrods and left an awful noise, Inthought I spun a cam bearing. The lifter slapping against the bottom of the push rod anded up bending them. Took me 2 sets of pushrods to figure it out.

Best of luck

4.7stroker 04-06-2013 10:03 PM

If your lifters are shot do not just change the lifters, you must replace the camshaft at the same time that you replace all of the lifters. They wear in as a matched set and just changing one component will result in you having to re do it right a second time.
You will always find the time and money to fix it right the second time.
See my sig for a lot of cam care info.

Dwayne

Toro5702 04-06-2013 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCBuckWild (Post 15258673)
I did on a built 318 in my W150 back in the day. It bent 2 pushrods and left an awful noise, Inthought I spun a cam bearing. The lifter slapping against the bottom of the push rod anded up bending them. Took me 2 sets of pushrods to figure it out.

Best of luck

Thanks USMCBuckWild. Did you see my videos? and was the ticking/knocking about the same? Meaning the bent pushrods sounding like my engine does.

Hmm. That brings up a good point. When lifters failed, it bent the pushrods and reason why the rocker arm has the excessive not normal play.. I will take a look at the pushrods as well to make sure they not bent.

Thanks again..

Toro5702 04-06-2013 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.7stroker (Post 15258852)
If your lifters are shot do not just change the lifters, you must replace the camshaft at the same time that you replace all of the lifters. They wear in as a matched set and just changing one component will result in you having to re do it right a second time.
You will always find the time and money to fix it right the second time.
See my sig for a lot of cam care info.

Dwayne

4.7stroker, I also read that as well during my research. Started pricing camshafts as well just in case. I am auto mechanically inclided but not when it comes to inside of an engine. I've done from basic auto mechanic oil changes, tune ups to replacing engines, trannys, differentials. Thus why I am doing a lot of research to pinpoint the exact cause of my issue b/c it entails the inside of the engine.

Do new camshafts usually include lifters or they seperate?

USMCBuckWild 04-07-2013 06:30 AM

I can't get the videos to play on my phone. I couldn't see the rods bent, once we pulled them out and layed them out on the workbench it was pretty apparent though.

The cam swap is probably a good idea. Honestly, I have done it both ways, but with a motor with some miles on it; I would trust the guy who knows cams. Swap and do it right the first time.

Toro5702 04-07-2013 11:27 PM

Well decided to do the ATF fix instead. A lot simpler and quicker than taking off serpentine belt and dropping oil pan to chceck for piston skirt pieces, to diagnosis.

It worked. I guess I did have sticky lifters.

Below is video showing no more knocking/ticking. Once again, sorry if you can't see video. Just click on header "YouTube (short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)
?start=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


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