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Unread 04-23-2008, 08:28 PM   #1
sykojeep
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Peugeot Madness

I know I need to get rid of the damn thing, but I'm looking for the cheapest option right now. Here is what is going on:

When cold, everything shifts great. After 4-5 minutes or however long it takes to heat up, if I push the clutch in, take it out of gear,then depress the clutch and then push the clutch in and try to put it back into gear, I can't put it into first or second. I can work around it by putting it in 4th first which seems to align everything and I can put it into any gear I want.

This started after I replaced a pissing clutch slave cylinder and had the flywheel machined.

The 4wd shop I take it to is completely stumped and ran through every option they could think of. Changed the master clutch cylinder, checked the slave again, put a new clutch in, machined the flywheel and changed the trans fluid to a synthetic (this was an idea from another post). System was bled and bled again, but nothing. Still won't go into first when warm unless I go into 4th first.

Another mechanic said he's convinced its not in the trans, but the 4wd shop has ruled out all other possibilities. Seems to be misaligned synchros. . .who knows.

So my options are, rebuild the peugeot, find an ax15 somewhere or find a cause we're all overlooking something. I would like to do the cheapest which would be the overlooked option, so hopefully someone out there can think of something.

Its an 87 yj, 4.2 with the peugeot ba10. . .94000 miles.


Last edited by sykojeep; 05-01-2008 at 11:31 AM..
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Unread 04-23-2008, 09:29 PM   #2
Ininkus
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I'm in West Michigan, you could drive up here and have mine for free. I think the PO had mine rebuilt.

Even at that price it's probably a waste of money.
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Unread 04-23-2008, 10:07 PM   #3
MetZenDS
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Dude, mine does it too- there is NOTHING you can do. the BA-10 just seems to do that when it gets hot. Just make sure its in 1st before you stop rolling and you'll be fine until you can afford to buy an AX-15..

If you rebuild/replace the BA-10, your just spending money you could've spent on the AX-15 swap.
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Unread 04-24-2008, 12:39 AM   #4
Matt87YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetZenDS View Post
If you rebuild/replace the BA-10, your just spending money you could've spent on the AX-15 swap.
I had mine rebuilt and guess what? A few thousand miles later its more ****ed up than before, I can't even move it in the driveway without bucking, jamming, horrible noises, and not wanting to move the jeep at all. For what I spent on the rebuild I could have done the Ax-15 swap. I have a Nv3550 and stroker on the way though.
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Unread 04-24-2008, 12:23 PM   #5
kloppk
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It's possible that the clutch is not fully disengaging after it gets warmed up.
This could be caused by...
1) A bad clutch master cyl
2) Air not fully bled from the clutch system
3) Bad pilot bearing

Many times I've replaced a clutch slave only to have the clutch master die.

Not being able to shift into 1st gear when stopped in an indicator that the clutch is not fully disengaging.

You can also jack up the rear wheels, start the Jeep and put it in first gear and push the clutch in.
If the rear wheel(s) continue to spin with the clutch in then the clutch is not disengaged fully. They may turn a bit due to some slight drag but should stop with just the slightest touch of the brake.
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Unread 04-24-2008, 02:34 PM   #6
zeus87gn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetZenDS
If you rebuild/replace the BA-10, your just spending money you could've spent on the AX-15 swap.
+3
I decided to patch up the BA back some years ago. Spent about 400.
I now have my 4.2 running so well, it's slowly destroying that same BA.
Wasted money. It won't hold up.
5th gear screams like a 2yr old that hasn't gotten his way.
It's still shifting fine, but it's starting to create some vibes.
I think the pilot bushing it going because the input shaft bearing is gone again.
I can coast the clutch and engage it again to make it smooth out.

Don't waste your money. Convert it and be done with it.
Those engineers should have know that if it wouldn't hold up to a 1.8l Fiat, it d@mn sure wouldn't hold up to a 4.2l Jeep!
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Unread 04-30-2008, 05:45 PM   #7
sykojeep
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I've replaced the master and slave clutch cylinders. . .doing this is what actually started the problems with the peugeot. I did the slave first and then the master when the problems started. I've had them bled and rechecked. Another mechanic is convinced its not in the trans. . . gotta be something with the clutch, but who knows. It doesn't always disengage when I pull it out of gear. . .but not always.

What is crazy is that it started after all the clutch work.


New thing I found today: The transmission is rattling during idle. Its a low pitch, almost inaudible rattle. I can stop it when I push the clutch in, put it into a gear and push it to the right. Then the rattle stops and everything is fine.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 07:42 PM   #8
sykojeep
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Another Suggestion

I got a suggestion today to change out the transmission fluid to something thicker.

I think I have a 75 in it. . .was told to try a 140 thickness/grade/whatever it goes by.

Since this is cheaper than getting a new trans right now and it might buy me some more time I think I am going to go for it.

Now. . .thoughts on this? I also have a debate whether to get a transmission fluid flush or just a replacement.

Help is appreciated.
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Unread 04-30-2008, 10:18 PM   #9
MetZenDS
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don't bother flushing it. Drain replace, pray it lives until you can do the AX-15 swap. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET IT TO WORK RIGHT.
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Unread 05-01-2008, 07:16 AM   #10
zeus87gn
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Thicker fluid won't help. It will hinder. The gears are constantly trying to sling fluid off them as they are spinning in a bath. The thicker the fluid the less likely of a chance the fluid will get in between the gears.

Fresh fluid (correct weight) might help, but what you are describing sounds like the wrong trani got put back in your rig. You went from almost no problems to a wealth of them.

The clutch didn't get changed with this work?
Do you know how they are bleeding the fluid?
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Unread 05-01-2008, 11:24 AM   #11
sykojeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus87gn View Post
The clutch didn't get changed with this work?
Do you know how they are bleeding the fluid?
Yes, the clutch was changed. The flywheel was also machined.

They are bleeding it like your normally do? I didn't know there was more than one way to bleed clutch fluid.

As for the tranny comment, its the same tranny, they didn't put a different one in. I can guarantee that it is because it has some "character flaws" that its always had unique to this trans.

The thicker fluid was recommended to stop a very low pitched rattle that I can stop if I put it into gear and push the shifter to the right in whatever gear it is in. The refusal to go into gear seems to be heat related which leads everyone's first option to fluid. . . I changed it to a synthetic about a month ago which seemed to help. . .but not much.
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Unread 05-01-2008, 12:21 PM   #12
zeus87gn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sykojeep
Yes, the clutch was changed. The flywheel was also machined.

They are bleeding it like your normally do? I didn't know there was more than one way to bleed clutch fluid.
Machining the flywheel won't make a difference unless it is too far gone in the first place.
Did you have the mechanic check the specs and thickness?
Do you know if it had ever been machined/replaced before?

Correct bleeding can make a BIG difference. If they are pressing in the clutch and forcing the plate to open (as it normally would) and then opening the bleeder valve to allow the fluid to come out, that's wrong IMO. That's bleeding under pressure and it doesn't work for clutches (from my experience). It churns up the fluid and forces air into it that you can't get out in this fashion (imagine frothy brake fluid). The air expands as it get's hot (engine running) and won't release the clutch right when it compresses under load. AKA - the release bearing won't open the plate far enough to allow the clutch to disengage because it is compressing air. Brake fluid won't compress.

Bleed it by releasing the valve and then pushing the pedal down. Close valve, release pedal, check fluid, repleat. Let the fluid sit a while before you start, like overnight. This will allow the air to separate itself from the fluid to 1 large pocket and will come out easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykojeep
As for the tranny comment, its the same tranny, they didn't put a different one in. I can guarantee that it is because it has some "character flaws" that its always had unique to this trans.
Just keeping you on your toes my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykojeep
The thicker fluid was recommended to stop a very low pitched rattle that I can stop if I put it into gear and push the shifter to the right in whatever gear it is in. The refusal to go into gear seems to be heat related which leads everyone's first option to fluid. . . I changed it to a synthetic about a month ago which seemed to help. . .but not much.
Many synthetics that have come out in the last few years don't have the correct ingredients for proper lubrication of older vehicles. Go get some Valvoline 70W fluid in the white quart jug (dino oil). (I believe) It is SF grade and made for these older tranis. It helped quiet mine down a good bit.

The rattling you are hearing is the shifter forks boouncing around.
Could be cause by the wrong fluid but most likely from the clutch not dis-engaging.
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Unread 05-07-2008, 11:13 AM   #13
sykojeep
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bump


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Unread 05-07-2008, 12:29 PM   #14
tcourdin
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Originally Posted by zeus87gn View Post
Machining the flywheel won't make a difference unless it is too far gone in the first place.
Did you have the mechanic check the specs and thickness?
Do you know if it had ever been machined/replaced before?
I was wondering the same thing, they could have machined too much off the flywheel.

The previous owner of my Jeep had the flywheel machined, then made up for the difference by making a shim to go in between the flywheel/crank...idiot.

Some of the Jeep manuals advise not to machine the flywheel on YJ's, something to do with it being concave.

When I had my Peugeot it wouldnt shift when cold, but once it was warm it shifted great.
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Unread 06-25-2008, 09:59 AM   #15
philly5eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sykojeep View Post
bump


Did you figure it out? I've had a problem with getting it into gear after replacing the slave,flywheel,m/c after my slave took a dump.
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