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opinions about rear locker

2K views 30 replies 13 participants last post by  mustanggarage 
#1 ·
Hello all. I have been slowly building up my 90 yj to be like the one I had years ago in Utah. I loved that jeep and hated having to sell it. anyway my old jeep had a dana 44 rear axle that I had swapped in. this was way back in about 2001 or so and not a lot of people were doing the 8.8 swap. anyway I loved the dana 44 and wanted one in this jeep. so I finally found an xj dana 44 to do the swap. I already bought it, so please don't tell me I should have bought the 8.8 I bought the dana 44 because I wanted the dana 44. ok now having that out of the way, lol, I do need some opinions. this axle has the 3.55 gear ratio to match my front axle and since I am running 31 inch tires and have the tf99 transmission I am pretty happy with the gear ratio so I don't plan on changing it any time soon. my jeep spends most of its time on the street and I only occasionally get to take it off road. the big concern for me right now is snow. the open differential is not real good in snow obviously.

obviously cost is always an issue and while a selectable locker like an ARB would be nice it is not really in the budget. so I am thinking of either going with a spartan lunchbox locker, or a detroit trutrac limited slip. obviously the spartan is a lot cheaper and would provide a true locker for offroad trails I would also not have to reshim and set up the ring and pinion. but the trutrac would be quieter for a daily driver and possibly be a bit easier to manage on hills etc. so what do you all think?
 
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#2 ·
How much snow do you get?

Any wrangler open /open should be plenty good in average snow.... Toss a little weight in the back

The True trac is going to be a better choice for road manners and daily driving, but the spartan will be much better off road, and less street manners but I think you already know that....

Sounds like the TT is a better choice, but...
Get the spartan, and install it.... Its easy enough to pull out and sell if you don't like it, and you're not resetting the gears...

I wounld't spend the money on a selectable locker for what you use it for...
 
#9 ·
yes very exciting.....lol
a rear lunch box locker ( no on/off switch ) is VERY exciting in snow.......everythings fine....facing wrong direction....just that fast.
Those with lockers get used to it, and know how to drive it and what to expect, but those new to a locker in snow get really exciting adventures when it suddendly locks half way through a corner, or when your trans downshifts. Yes its great at slow speeds in deep snow where you normally would get stuck, but in town......spooky
 
#10 ·
I hear these horror stories of auto lockers in the snow and I just wonder if it's a difference in driving style or snow type or what. I never had any issue with auto lockers in the snow, maybe our Sierra snow is different??
 
#14 ·
well, I did ask for opinions lol, and you know what they say about opinions. anyway I appreciate everyone who answered. I have been researching this all over and have basically heard every option available, only use open diff, open diff sucks always use locker, always use full carrier locker lunchbox lockers suck, lunchbox lockers and full carrier lockers do exactly the same in the snow. highly recommend trutrac, never use limited slip in the snow you will die, always use limited slip but trutrac is weak and will break. the best option is a selectable locker. selectable locker is no better than an open locker. in snow.

most people agree that a selectable locker like an ARB is probably the best compromise but is very expensive.

most agree that open diff is probably safer in snow than a locker but traction and off road capability suffer

most agree that if you use a locker you should be sure you are very familiar with how it functions and drive carefully and slowly around corners.

anybody have anything else to add? I am still undecided about what I want to do. fortunately I am in no hurry, as it stands I have an open diff and I am not in a tearing hurry to swap it out so I will research a bit more.
 
#15 ·
Sorry, sometimes we wander off point around here. The best advice I could give you is to get a inexpensive case-less locker and give it a try. It takes an hour or so to put in and you save your spider gears so that if or when you deside you don't like it you can go back to open and sell the locker..
Hope that help some. FWIW I love the locker and would never go back.
 
#16 ·
In my old WJ limited, I had the quadra-drive 4wd system (LSD front and rear). From my own personal experience, that thing was a BEAST in the snow! Still to this day the best 4WD system for snow that I've driven IMO. I'm in MI so I see some decent snowfall, unfortunately no experience personally with locker 🙁.
I'd do what shaggy said, cheap, easy, and if you don't like you can selling and recoup some cash.
 
#17 ·
thanks again. I am also rethinking a few things. first of all, all the research I did said I should have 3.55 gears in my jeep. it is a 1990 with 4.2 and auto. when I try to estimate it by looking at the driveshaft and tire as I rotate it, it is looking like it might actually be 3.07. I actually am fairly happy with how the jeep drives. it seems like it has plenty of torque, and runs down the highway at 70 just as well as it runs around town. having said that with the 31 inch tires I am running I am sure that I would get definite improvement from regearing. obviously also the gear break in both these axles complicates things. If I go with the 3.55 which is in the dana 44 I bought I can just regear the front to match. I can buy a used dana 30 open diff with ring and pinion for about 100.00. but upgrading to 3.55 will have very little effect on function, if I go to 3.73 (which I think is a bad idea) then I have to regear both front and back. and if I decide to go up to 4.10 or higher in the future I would have to replace the rear carrier. If I go with 4.10 which is what I am considering then I could regear both at the same time and if I ever decided to go with bigger tires and deeper gears I would not have to change carriers. so I could keep whatever locker, or limited slip diff I decided on. obviously I would love to have the arb air lockers more for the cool factor than anything (I love gadgets lol.) . If I go that route I could just shelve this project for a little while, do what I can but save up for whatever gear and diff solution I finally come up with. I am really thinking I should go with the 4.10 gears I was thinking the 3.55 is fine if it was a direct swap but if I am going to have to regear one of the axles anyway I may as well do it right?
 
#18 ·
Keep in mind a full locker like an ARB will require gear set up as it replaces the carrier. Don't pay twice (unless you do your own gears), decide what you want and run with it. I wouldn't regear to 3.55 or 3.73. You need to know how big you may go in tire size, if you think you'll only ever go 33's then 4.10 is the way to go. I'm actually running 4.10's on 37's and it does great just driving, it would be a bear offroad except I've got a 4:1 t-case.
 
#19 ·
This might help you figure out which ratio you currently have. You can play with different gear ratios and tire sizes to help get your plan together too.
Also don't forget that whatever your current ratio is, provided it's the factory gearing, was used on factory tires (215/75R15 or 225/75R15), which can be and probably are substantially lighter than 31's or 33's, and tire weights vary between different brands of the same size.

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
 
#20 ·
mustanggarage said:
thanks again. I am also rethinking a few things. first of all, all the research I did said I should have 3.55 gears in my jeep. it is a 1990 with 4.2 and auto. when I try to estimate it by looking at the driveshaft and tire as I rotate it, it is looking like it might actually be 3.07. I actually am fairly happy with how the jeep drives. it seems like it has plenty of torque, and runs down the highway at 70 just as well as it runs around town. having said that with the 31 inch tires I am running I am sure that I would get definite improvement from regearing. obviously also the gear break in both these axles complicates things. If I go with the 3.55 which is in the dana 44 I bought I can just regear the front to match. I can buy a used dana 30 open diff with ring and pinion for about 100.00. but upgrading to 3.55 will have very little effect on function, if I go to 3.73 (which I think is a bad idea) then I have to regear both front and back. and if I decide to go up to 4.10 or higher in the future I would have to replace the rear carrier. If I go with 4.10 which is what I am considering then I could regear both at the same time and if I ever decided to go with bigger tires and deeper gears I would not have to change carriers. so I could keep whatever locker, or limited slip diff I decided on. obviously I would love to have the arb air lockers more for the cool factor than anything (I love gadgets lol.) . If I go that route I could just shelve this project for a little while, do what I can but save up for whatever gear and diff solution I finally come up with. I am really thinking I should go with the 4.10 gears I was thinking the 3.55 is fine if it was a direct swap but if I am going to have to regear one of the axles anyway I may as well do it right?
-OIIIIIIIO-01 said:
In my old WJ limited, I had the quadra-drive 4wd system (LSD front and rear). From my own personal experience, that thing was a BEAST in the snow! Still to this day the best 4WD system for snow that I've driven IMO. I'm in MI so I see some decent snowfall, unfortunately no experience personally with locker dde41. I'd do what shaggy said, cheap, easy, and if you don't like you can selling and recoup some cash.
I deal with sloppy roads like almost daily here in Vermont. I also plowed snow for about 36 customers in NH when I was mid twenties.
My opinion is that a limited slip in the rear is the least problematic in snow. It's less than perfect off-road but scrubs tires very little on road and doesn't skate the rear as often as a locker IMHO. Lockers in the rear work fantastic, but sometimes (often?) you want a little imperfection/slip in the rear diff to not compound a slide when you're on the throttle. An Aussie locker as stated? Well, for the $225-$250ish I think they sell at, it is not much of a gamble. I'd do that if not installing limited slip clutches. Locker in the front? Fantastic in my mind especially if you have a cable axle disconnect instead of the vacuum. Closest thing to selectable without the price.
I DON'T like lockers or LSD in snow on road with an automatic transmission. Bad skid situations are often correctable by stepping in the clutch, and very often throwing the tcase into 2WD corrects the downhill slide situation when you're in 4WD cuz you don't force a cross-corner braking issue. But an automatic doesn't give you the instantly available 'coast' option

Fwiw I drive 2WD on road in snow almost all the time and only use 4wd when necessary. 4wd too often lets you out-drive your cornering and braking capacity, and and going into 4WD usually isn't as critical a response time as getting the lever to 2WD in a skid.
 
#21 ·
Fish is spot on about the stepping on the clutch to straighten out in a skid. In an automatic you can achieve the same effect by popping it in neutral. Both methods cut all torque to the wheels, which allows them to roll free and regain traction.

That's why using cruise control gets people into trouble on slick highways. That and hitting the brakes thinking it will stop them when it makes them lose even more control.
 
#22 ·
Yes. Don't get me wrong I know how to drive in snow. I have lived in the Midwest my whole life and I am 50 years old now. So I have plenty of experience with winter driving. Generally I drive my f150. 4wd. It has a limited slip rearend with an electric locker from the factory it is great in snow. My jeep has both open diffs and it does ok in the snow in 4wd. But is helpless in 2wd
 
#23 ·
mustanggarage said:
Yes. Don't get me wrong I know how to drive in snow. I have lived in the Midwest my whole life and I am 50 years old now. So I have plenty of experience with winter driving. Generally I drive my f150. 4wd. It has a limited slip rearend with an electric locker from the factory it is great in snow. My jeep has both open diffs and it does ok in the snow in 4wd. But is helpless in 2wd
LOL it's the weight of the YJ- as in not enough for the footprint. And it probably gets worse with bigger tires. The jeep is so good in so many ways but in regards to situations that weight on the wheels -snow- might benefit it makes you wonder if you plugged the bulb back into the 4x4 indicator on the dash, "would it help?"
 
#24 ·
cyoos said:
In an automatic you can achieve the same effect by popping it in neutral...
With an auto, if you're popping it in neutral, your hand can't run the transfer case at the same time. With an auto you can't feather in the power to test traction with the clutch either. I'm jaded - I like 5-speed manual transmixxionators
 
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#25 ·
fishadventure said:
LOL it's the weight of the YJ- as in not enough for the footprint. And it probably gets worse with bigger tires. The jeep is so good in so many ways but in regards to situations that weight on the wheels -snow- might benefit it makes you wonder if you plugged the bulb back into the 4x4 indicator on the dash, "would it help?"
The light weight is part of it. But the short wheelbase is another factor, that thing can go from north to south on slippery surfaces faster than you can shake a stick lol. I usually find that just letting off the gas will straighten you out pretty quickly the big problem with an auto like my jeep has, is stopping. In that case it is very helpful to kick the transmission into neutral when you coast up to a stop before putting on the brakes
 
#26 ·
I have an automatic 4.0 with the 3.54 xj Dana 44 with a Spartan locker in the rear. It takes a little time to get used to the rear end locking on clover leaves we use to get on the highway. I love the hell out of it. My only complaint is it is hard on rubber, it has a tendency to chunk the edges of the tread blocks. Other than that I can honestly say I love it.
 
#31 ·
that is exactly what I wanted to hear. I have a gps speedometer so that really isn't a consideration for me. but the drive ability is. I honestly like building the jeep more because I like to tinker with cars, than anything. This jeep has not had a chance to do any rock crawling and won't for the foreseeable future. mud, and snow, some b roads etc. that it will see. eventually I want to move back to Utah. then I will probably have to re gear for some serious off-roading. but for what I use the jeep for it sounds like the 3.54 will be right where I want to be. it certainly seems like it would be smart to not spend thousands of dollars to re-gear to 4.10 with arb lockers front and back until I at least try the 3.54 gears. so I am going to go with the spartan in the back and an open in the front with 3.54 gears. I already converted to a one piece front axle so I don't want to put any kind of a locker in front except a selectable locker or limited slip.
 
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