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Unread 08-28-2013, 06:28 PM   #31
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarythedrill View Post
hey fish,

i am in vermont also, and have been looking at swapping out my 2.5 also. look on vermont craigslist, under auto parts (or whatever it says) and type in jeep engine. one of the things that pops up is a jeep 4.0 with AX15 and x-fer case for sale. the pictures will be of an ugly red YJ. his prices are very reasonable. i think he wants 350 for the engine and transmission, and 150 for the x-fer case. hope this helps, and good luck.

EDIT: he is located at grande isle, about an hour from you. good luck
I missed this post earlier or forgot it. I may explore that this weekend but I do think I have 'enough' parts for the swap.

Expecting some bolts will be needed and need a starter. I am not cutting out the wiring harness so I can "go backwards" if I want and go fuel injected someday. Depends. A few other parts will be needed to buy or fabricate- depending. Driveshafts are probably where I will need to have a shop take care of it for balance sake.

Pressure washed the jeep last night including the engine compartment. Should make it more pleasant when I pull the motor this weekend.

Goal is to get the 4cyl and drivetrain out, pull the engine wiring harness parts labeling and boxing for the future, taking down the transfer case to install the input shaft, locating what I need for a pilot bearing, and doing a trial assembly of motor to tranny and transfer. That is probably enough, but if it goes quick and well (and the parts come in) I am going to install a basic bearing and ring kit. That's a gamble because I don't know if the crank is stock or undersized... I bet on stock size I decided once the motor was in I didn't want to have to pull it anytime soon out of necessity- only if I decide I want to. Previous owner of the motor already had head gone through but mentioned it had some blow-by so the rings make sense and I have cylinder hones.

After it is in an running on the road the first two mods will be finding a soft top (mine came with a hard top only) and I think I have settled on a SOA before I do anything else. Those two things will burn or exceed any remaining available funds so it might have to wait until next year...

On the topic of funds- is there an inexpensive source for a new front window glass and gaskets? Local auto glass outfit said $260 but that seems like a lot for a flat plate of glass that fits a very popular vehicle.

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Unread 08-29-2013, 08:35 AM   #32
vadslram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
The specs on the old 258 are 115HP and the 4cyl 2.5 is 125HP so I don't think have a concern here

It's not the heat, it's the humidity.
Yes the 2.5 has a few extra horses but it also has almost 100 lbft of torque less the I6 depending on variant;
2.5 139 lbft @3200 rpm
4.0 220 lbft at 4k
4.2 210 - 240 lbft @ , <2k depending on year and setup.

All that low end torque will eat the smaller tranny.
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Unread 08-30-2013, 07:09 AM   #33
schaef89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadslram
It's not the heat, it's the humidity.
Yes the 2.5 has a few extra horses but it also has almost 100 lbft of torque less the I6 depending on variant;
2.5 139 lbft @3200 rpm
4.0 220 lbft at 4k
4.2 210 - 240 lbft @ , <2k depending on year and setup.

All that low end torque will eat the smaller tranny.
Already covered on the first page

Fish, how goes the swap?
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Unread 08-30-2013, 07:40 AM   #34
zeus87gn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
Last night I drove 4-1/4 hours out (3-1/2 hours back) and picked up the 258 that was in the CJ along with an "unknown" good AX15 and the AX15-spline matching shaft for the transfer case "remodel."

The guy I bought from was generous and helpful- honest even. Generous because I brought all that home for $220 and I couldn't be more pleased.
I've been following along and was just curious...
Was this the same fellow that had the 4.2 with the BA trani?
Or someone else?

Either way, I'm glad to read you didn't get a BA trani
That was a pretty good deal
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Unread 08-31-2013, 10:19 AM   #35
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus87gn View Post
I've been following along and was just curious...
Was this the same fellow that had the 4.2 with the BA trani?
Or someone else?

Either way, I'm glad to read you didn't get a BA trani
That was a pretty good deal
Quote:
Originally Posted by schaef89 View Post
Already covered on the first page

Fish, how goes the swap?
It is going well... not a lot of mechanical work but have sourced starter, ignition module, checked parts for compatibility, ordered tranny pilot bearing, cleaned loose parts.

I have an AX-15 and working on external slave parts for it. May buy an AX-15 complete with t-case as I apparently don't have the right input shaft to accept the AX-15 after all (which is why it is good to research all the parts before turning wrenches ) and the whole setup is only a few hundred more than the input shaft alone and is already an external slave setup, so that is almost a no-brainer - if the guy ever calls me back to confirm!

As far as turning wrenches- the 4-cyl and drivetrain will likely be on the ground this weekend.
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Unread 09-01-2013, 09:59 AM   #36
fishadventure
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So a pilot bearing for a CJ/Cherockee with a 258 is what fits the AX15 input and the crank on the 77/78 258 six. It is a roller bearing version, not just a bushing. Still in need of the input shaft for the transfer case OR buy another complete setup if the guy who has it ever calls me back...

Two motor mounts, a t-case/tranny bracket, and two driveshafts are all that's left to pull the 4-cyl. That was how far I got before we needed a supper break and going to finish that in a few minutes. After that I am going to put the 258 on a stand and pull the pistons to examine them, mic the cylinders, and maybe measure a couple crank journals to determine life expectancy. Hopefully all is pretty clean and a cylinder honing and rings are all I need to deal with. Hopefully the guy with the AX15 and transfer case will call me back and I can pick those parts up this week- then I can start bolting stuff up, relocate the motor mounts, figure out driveshaft lengths, and figure out what wires I need to borrow from the YJ harness to power the ignition and coil.

Also decided to nix the idea of retaining the factory AC as the condenser coil was pretty well corroded and it seemed like a lot of time and expense to adapt to the 258 to merely obtain an impractical wow factor... although it would be cool (just /had/ to say that

Depending on hands available to get the motor off the ground, onto concrete, and in place on the engine stand I may instead opt for a demo on the interior instead of the cylinder check. The jeep may not be 'perfect' but it can be immaculately clean and I have to get stuff out to weld the minor rust spots, and I would want the interior out to paint anyway. Thinking of bedliner interior under everything, spraying a base coat of flat forest green inside and out. Then having six colors of flat enamel mixed to my specs so I can spray the exterior through various cardboard dodging masks in a "realtree"-like camo pattern. My daughter wants it blue, but hey...it's my rig!
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Unread 09-10-2013, 07:15 AM   #37
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So spent time freeing up the brakes. Rears will need retainer kits and shoes but other than that are in pretty good shape. Sitting for the last 5 years or so has really been harmful to this solid jeep. Making it easy to roll is the immediate goal but since I plan on driving it these items HAVE TO be attended to at some point- so shy not now? No time like the present!

Looking for suggestions here: 5 out of the 6 tranny mount to frame bolts broke off when trying to remove them. I am thinking of welding sort "studs" to the frame and using nuts on them. Anybody have any other suggestions of some beautifully thought out and engineered solution to solving this "problem?" The bolt heads that came OEM would probably have a little less likelihood of getting hung up on stuff but since the Jeep's purpose will be primary daily driver during the 7 or 8 months of the year corrosive salt is not on the roads with occasional recreational wheeling this isn't a problem for me. But still would love to hear of any other way this issue has been addressed by others.

Pretty excited to be on the "reassembly" side of this project now. Hesitating slightly as the "junker" jeep I bought to source the AX15 and xfer case came with a complete 4.0 including the computer and wiring harness - and the oil in it is very clean!! Like clear-clean. Got me thinking this thing might run. But I still like the carburetor simplicity and the breathing characteristics of the 258 head with its low compression. I may consider a fabrication project at some point to put fuel injectors on a 258 intake...seems simple enough. But right now I think driving down the road is the goal I need to keep focused on.

Having fun here
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Unread 09-10-2013, 10:00 AM   #38
schaef89
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stick a nut on the end of a bolt and hold it in the hole, then weld the nut in.
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Unread 09-12-2013, 06:37 AM   #39
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaef89 View Post
stick a nut on the end of a bolt and hold it in the hole, then weld the nut in.
Well, not to the point of welding in the skid plate bolts yet but my buddy did the front brakes and I tackled the rear with new everything for the back brakes. Need a parking brake adjuster as OEM was rusted beyond use. Welding nuts into holes overhead would mean drill or blasting big holes to begin with and then figuring out perfect alignment... Sooooooo-

What I decided was to sort-of replicate the original to some extent by drilling bolt-size holes in a piece of 3/16" strap at the right spacing. Then I can run bolts through the plate into nuts, weld the nuts to the strap, and have perfect alignment.

Then after the motor location is established, I will know where the tranny needs to be in relation to the frame. Location should be fairly simple as I now have the 4.0 YJ parts Jeep to look at Anyway, I will simply cut the frame bottom out and perimeter weld in the strap/nut assembly. I don't think that will be more work than drilling/blasting/filling-with-weld and it seems likely to be a lot faster of a solution as there will be no fussing with getting the nuts just right before welding the nuts. Overhead welding is a challenge enough without having to be that precise imho. Vertical, horizontal, and flat is so much preferred.

Found another second set of doors for half doors as my prior set of extra doors got "lost" at my buddy's garage... Got a good windshield frame and looking to buy a THIRD windshield as I have manage to accidentally smash two good replacements in a row with Murphy's Law sorts of things...
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Unread 09-13-2013, 07:04 AM   #40
fishadventure
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Well, I have found three things that are made from pure imported unobtainium - the rubber and bolt mount that goes under center of grill, the parking brake balancer/adjuster, and the rubber window moulding for the side rear windows in my hardtop. Not even quadratec...

Did manage to buy an AX15 last night for $100 with the parts for external clutch slave which makes me pleased. I am going to find what I need to fabricate the hydraulic line. I have read that the YJ and later model TJ lines are different and that there is an aftermarket braided stainless line available for $70. To MY way of thinking $70 is a lot and it can't be that hard to source fittings and make up my own for far less. I already have several tools for brake lines so I can't think the clutch should be that complex. I will see!! And then post here
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Unread 09-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #41
vadslram
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I made my own grill mount. I went to lowes and bought a 2 1/2 inch rubber stopper (why they had it at lowes???)
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?...llow&cId=PDIO1I also bought the biggest SQUARE nut they had. I tack welded a small piece of rod to the side of the nut, drilled a hole through the center of the stopper and viola a new mount.
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Unread 09-15-2013, 03:47 PM   #42
Berniebikes
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Go to your local glass shop. They sell "T" moulding that will fit your rear hard top windows, usually by the foot. you can use some butyl sealant to make sure you have a seal.
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Unread 09-17-2013, 10:06 AM   #43
fishadventure
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Originally Posted by Berniebikes View Post
Go to your local glass shop. They sell "T" moulding that will fit your rear hard top windows, usually by the foot. you can use some butyl sealant to make sure you have a seal.
Thanks- Wasn't able to source the t-molding locally. I bought Urethane windshield installation compound in a caulking tube and just stuck the window in place. That is what the factory did- they just had the molding/gasket for cosmetics sake; I wish I did. Though at $20/tube it ain't cheap but it won't be the end of the world to do over after I get some t-molding/dressing.

But for now it isn't raining in anymore. Prepping transfer case and tranny tonight.
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Unread 10-16-2013, 10:41 AM   #44
fishadventure
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Originally Posted by schaef89 View Post
Fish, how goes the swap?
So at this point I have everything needed to hone the cylinders and install new rings and bearings in an otherwise great condition motor.

Here is the update list:
  • purchased a new-in-box SYE off craiglist for a good savings
  • have bought everything used except for a new slave cylinder for the external clutch slave including the bellhousing
  • have bought the right transfer case for a 6-cyl AX15 instead of buying an input shaft
  • have a true-neutral transfer case shift plate coming
  • need to buy a few parts for the homemade posi-lock cable conversion
  • going to build a flat high-clearance skid plate and seperate rear tranny lift crossmember to lift motor, tranny, and t-case about 1-1/4"
  • Have found a driveshaft balancing outfit locally so I can weld my own driveshafts and get them balance for about 15% of the cost of buying really nice custom shafts
  • mail-ordered floor pan repair parts

I think I am [I]finally[I] going to have the time this weekend to get the motor work done and get that reassembled. I so much want to be on the "I can drive it!" end of this project! I need to start taking pictures...
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Unread 10-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #45
fishadventure
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Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
...update list:
  • purchased a new-in-box SYE off craiglist for a good savings
  • have bought everything...for the external clutch slave...bellhousing
  • have bought...6-cyl AX15 and NP231 and true-neutral plate coming
  • need to buy a few parts for the homemade posi-lock cable conversion
  • building high-clearance skid plate and rear raised crossmember plus raised motor mounts
  • Procured an XJ donor vehicle for CV driveshaft to shorten for SYE
  • floor pan repair parts are in
I pulled the 4.0/tranny/xfer out of donor junker YJ. Exhaust was all new so I saved all that! Scarfed the longer front driveshaft I needed for mine. Later today will be pulling 4.0 head/harness/ecu etc. from a '97 XJ I just got yesterday.

Just spent an hour NOT finding one of those "plentiful" Ford 8.8s with 4.10 limited slip but I will find one. Budget allows only $200 for it but I couldn't even find one nearby to price compare. Looks like I will have to resort to buying a whole Explorer. Maybe I can tack-weld my Dana 35 into it to roll off at the junk yard LOL
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