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Unread 07-30-2013, 07:05 PM   #16
roadyrob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lah2420 View Post
Here's a list of transfer inputs with tranny and year:

FLUSH 23 1987-2002 (999/904)
LONG 23 1989-2002 (AX15)
FLUSH 21 1987-2002 (AX4/AX5 UP TO 1996) SOME AW4
LONG 21 1987-89 PEUGEOT (AX5 1997 & NEWER)
not sure what flush and long mean but I run a transfercase from a 94 4 cyl in my 87 and it works just fine, didn't see any difference in the input shaft between the 2 cases.

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Unread 07-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #17
Tom95YJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lah2420

Here's a list of transfer inputs with tranny and year:

FLUSH 23 1987-2002 (999/904)
LONG 23 1989-2002 (AX15)
FLUSH 21 1987-2002 (AX4/AX5 UP TO 1996) SOME AW4
LONG 21 1987-89 PEUGEOT (AX5 1997 & NEWER)
4.2l Yj 's use 21 spline just like 4 cylinders
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Unread 07-30-2013, 08:32 PM   #18
lah2420
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Just giving information. Not disputing what anyone runs. If I remember right, this was off of an Novak Adapters page. If you want some interesting reading on the differences, try this:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...nput_gears.htm

Agaln, not trying to start any disagreements. I just want to save the OP some possible headaches. If I'm wrong, so be it. I don't get upset at being proven wrong.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 09:48 AM   #19
fishadventure
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Good information. Thank you again.

Last night I drove 4-1/4 hours out (3-1/2 hours back) and picked up the 258 that was in the CJ along with an "unknown" good AX15 and the AX15-spline matching shaft for the transfer case "remodel." Also got modified motor mounts, plates, brackets, flywheel, and clutch for same. Has internal slave cylinder so going to see what I can do about that. Unless there is a length difference between the AX5 and the AX15 I think I am not going to need to deal with drive shafts. I will need a starter and a new Ford ICM for the distributor but that is not a big deal. I will have to figure out the ignition switch wiring and relays which shouldn't be hard either. Motor has capillary (non-electric) temp gauge and oil pressure which I may switch to electric senders for my use of OEM instrument panel.

The guy I bought from was generous and helpful- honest even. Generous because I brought all that home for $220 and I couldn't be more pleased.

Now that I have the parts I am very keyed up to get this motor installed and any issues sorted out! Unfortunately I work a full time job and have about 60 hours on my side business that I have to get done before the 11th of August so this is going to have to sit still for a bit. Uggh. This is the most anticipated thing I have done for myself since I restored my 1964 MFG Niagara in 2002! If I wasn't responsible life would be so much more fun!

A lot of exclamation points there but I am really psyched up to get this thing mobile. I can't wait In the meantime I am going to steal spare minutes to confirm that everything I have that should fit does indeed actually fit.

Does the transfer case come apart and go back together with Hylomar HPF or RTV? I need to buy a repair manual.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 09:50 AM   #20
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom95YJ View Post
4.2l Yj 's use 21 spline just like 4 cylinders
Well, in that case I may not need the shaft I got. But I think the AX15 I got is 23 spline...Good either way but it would handy not to have to tear down the transfer case.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 10:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
Good information. Thank you again.

Last night I drove 4-1/4 hours out (3-1/2 hours back) and picked up the 258 that was in the CJ along with an "unknown" good AX15 and the AX15-spline matching shaft for the transfer case "remodel." Also got modified motor mounts, plates, brackets, flywheel, and clutch for same. Has internal slave cylinder so going to see what I can do about that. Unless there is a length difference between the AX5 and the AX15 I think I am not going to need to deal with drive shafts. I will need a starter and a new Ford ICM for the distributor but that is not a big deal. I will have to figure out the ignition switch wiring and relays which shouldn't be hard either. Motor has capillary (non-electric) temp gauge and oil pressure which I may switch to electric senders for my use of OEM instrument panel.

The guy I bought from was generous and helpful- honest even. Generous because I brought all that home for $220 and I couldn't be more pleased.

Now that I have the parts I am very keyed up to get this motor installed and any issues sorted out! Unfortunately I work a full time job and have about 60 hours on my side business that I have to get done before the 11th of August so this is going to have to sit still for a bit. Uggh. This is the most anticipated thing I have done for myself since I restored my 1964 MFG Niagara in 2002! If I wasn't responsible life would be so much more fun!

A lot of exclamation points there but I am really psyched up to get this thing mobile. I can't wait In the meantime I am going to steal spare minutes to confirm that everything I have that should fit does indeed actually fit.

Does the transfer case come apart and go back together with Hylomar HPF or RTV? I need to buy a repair manual.
You should look into finding a 4.0 intake, 4.0 computer, and adding two injector wires to your harness. It'll let you keep your fuel injection with the 258
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Unread 07-31-2013, 11:04 AM   #22
wendell
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The 258 isn't really that low on hp, emissions have choked it to death. The 258 emissions free produced 150 hp and 240 pounds of torque, not bad for a carbed 6 cylinder.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 11:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell
The 258 isn't really that low on hp, emissions have choked it to death. The 258 emissions free produced 150 hp and 240 pounds of torque, not bad for a carbed 6 cylinder.
X2. Soon as I get a chance I plan on ditching all my emissions stuff minus the cat
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Unread 07-31-2013, 03:13 PM   #24
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell View Post
The 258 isn't really that low on hp, emissions have choked it to death. The 258 emissions free produced 150 hp and 240 pounds of torque, not bad for a carbed 6 cylinder.
Cool. That actually makes sense. I had an old AMC Concord (1975? Don't know) that was rusty in the floors but had only about $40K on it. That car had the 258 and it felt downright powerful- power to spare! That car got like 24MPG on the highway to boot.

The 258 I picked up doesn't have any emissions other than PCV and has a single-barrel carb. Ought to be a good motor. Looking forward to this thing running.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 03:16 PM   #25
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaef89 View Post
You should look into finding a 4.0 intake, 4.0 computer, and adding two injector wires to your harness. It'll let you keep your fuel injection with the 258
Interesting thought. Somehow I like the carburetor simplicity though- a throwback to my late teen tinkering.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 03:45 PM   #26
AmmitOsiris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom95YJ

4.2l Yj 's use 21 spline just like 4 cylinders
No I have an ax15. I win
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Unread 08-03-2013, 11:15 AM   #27
fishadventure
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Where I am at right now is the pilot bearing for the tranny input shaft. The one on the motor has a bushing and a pilot within that- except that the AX15 "I" have appears to have a much small diameter. PO I sourced the motor and tranny from mentioned an AMC or Jeep part will need to be sourced. My unfamiliarity means I will be digging around online to find info on that.
EDIT: I found this in the slave cylinder change FAQ: it describes a pilot bearing from a 70s CJ with a 304. I will start there.
Second, I need to source an external slave cylinder. What I don't know on that is if I just need the parts from a junkyard and a new slave from an auto parts store or if I need a whole bellhousing and assembly. Reading up on that right now...
EDIT: in the pilot bearing link above I learned is that some who said the same bellhousing works is entirelyincorrect. An AX15 or NV bellhousing that came with an external slave IS required.

Last edited by fishadventure; 08-03-2013 at 01:02 PM.. Reason: pilot bearing update
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Unread 08-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #28
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishadventure View Post
...Third- I have read "out there" where the 4cyl to 6cyl swap DOES NOT require different driveshafts because the posters have claimed the AX15 mounts in the same position as the AX5. Then other posts have said new shaft lengths are required. Court is still out because some of these posts were regarding an AX15 upgrade behind the 2.5. Back to reading...
The YJ FAQ page says "check here first" but finding 258 (4.2) swap info to not be very prolific I elected to read a few 4.0 threads and found the AX15 length in: the Leans swap thread This post mentions the AX15 being 4" longer than the AX5 so either a fabricated mount or a 6-cyl-equipped new or donor tranny bracket IS needed. This relocation means changing driveshaft lengths- shorter in back and longer in front. Suggestion I read is that a 4.0YJ would have the right driveshafts so I am going to explore that; it makes sense they'll fit and junkers shouldn't be too pricey.

I don't mean to bore anybody, but over the internet (and even a few places here) I have seen lots of 4.2/258-into-2.5 questions with a lot of opinions but very little in the way of definitive info. Wicked thankful for the helpful info. Salutations to those taking the time to help.

So I am going to keep posting my 'discoveries' as I go to help others who may want to "go backwards" as some have opined. Once I get to turning wrenches I intend to take photos and either write a nice post-series of the events or continue posting here for newbies like me who might happen to jump into this Jeep stuff a little green...

Onto seeing if I can figure out the pilot bearing issue. My motor WAS in a CJ (I think I mistakenly typed YJ earlier) but the AX15 was not the tranny used with it at the time. I don't know WHAT he had for a tranny- I just know the AX15 I got came from a 4.0-equipped Cherokee or something. So...back to reading - maybe I can figure it out. Or maybe someone knows? The clutch that was in the PO's 87-ish cj fits the splines on the AX15 and the pressure plate lines up fine to the flywheel. Just the pilot bearing is not right.
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Unread 08-03-2013, 02:59 PM   #29
lah2420
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The clutch and pressure plate part numbers are the same from late 80s model CJs to the end of the YJ era. You're right about the pilot bushing. I forgot all about that. Some transmissions came with a .590" bushing and others came with a .75" bushing. I think the 89-91 had one size and the 92-99 had another. I can't remember which was which though.
Also some used a bushing and others used a bearing.

This is from another forum. Don't know how much help it is:
The 53009180AB pilot bearing will work with the AMC 258 crank & '92-'99 AX15, but it won't work with the '89-'91 AX15. You need pilot bearing 33004041
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Unread 08-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #30
fishadventure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lah2420 View Post
...Some transmissions came with a .590" bushing and others came with a .75" bushing. I think the 89-91 had one size and the 92-99 had another. I can't remember which was which though.
Also some used a bushing and others used a bearing.
I am thinking on this one it is standard a bushing from what I was looking at. It appears that my AX15 would be the .590 and the motor is .75. The existing bushing is a bushing within a reducer bushing so I am thinking that I may need two parts and not just one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lah2420 View Post
This is from another forum. Don't know how much help it is:
The 53009180AB pilot bearing will work with the AMC 258 crank & '92-'99 AX15, but it won't work with the '89-'91 AX15. You need pilot bearing 33004041
I think that will help a lot! Pilots don't cost very much and my GUESS is that I should measure existing parts, order both, and mic them at the parts store to confirm a match. I might go the local NAPA on monday- the sharpest parts counter person out of the four dealers in town is the woman at the NAPA dealer. If anyone can make sense of this she can. She has solved tons of boat motor, toyota, and nissan part issues for me over the years.

FWIW I have learned enough in the last week and today that I realize some of my newbie questions have been rather lame. Thank you and everyone else that has been feeding me information. Although I may run into a surprise or two, after my last week on JeepForum I /feel/ like I have pretty much everything covered. Turning wrenches will bring out the details but I don't think I will have any surprises. I have a manual on the way to fill in the details, but the "overall" segments of my project YJ have been helped tremendously by reading on this forum.

At this point my unknowns are pretty much summed up in not knowing exactly where to reweld the frame mounts for the motor mounts, the driveshaft needs, and what parts of the wiring harness I need to jumper for the starter, ignition, and gauges. These will reveal themselves when I lower the motor in and figure out what matches what. (I was going to eliminate the factory YJ/2.5 engine harness and make everything clean but I have decided to put that off just in case I get crazy and actually go for the 4.0 install next year. Not likely, but hey! It's not going to be a shiny show jeep so why should I care about the 'spare' wires?
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